Today's Topics:
organs of perception
Re: Biblical Sources and More
Re: 175 Years Ago...
Re: organs of perception
Re: organs of perception
Re: Biblical Sources and More
Re: Biblical Sources and More
Re: organs of perception
Re: organs of perception
Re: Biblical Sources and More
Re: organs of perception
Re: organs of perception
stop!!!!
33 Years........
Orc In "America"
Re: organs of perception
Re: organs of perception
overload!
Re: organs of perception
Spam?
tom's messages
emergency Blake List shutdown
Re: organs of perception
Re: organs of perception
RE: organs of perception
Blake List test -- DO NOT REPLY
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:22:11
From: Izak Bouwer
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: organs of perception
The phenomenal world is called by Blake OgenerationO or the Onatural,O
and what he calls OmentalO (because it is related to experience by the mind)
is what we would call spiritual. The former kind of world is
perceived with the Oorgans of senseO or the Onatural and bodily organs,O
the latter kind with the Oimaginative and immortal organsO (_DC: The
Bard, from Gray_ K576). I believe that in order to follow Blake
one has to take seriously the existence of these Oimaginative and
immortal organs.O This places him squarely in the tradition of
Boehme, Swedenborg, etc.
In his tractate _NNR_(#2) his first statement is:
OManOs perceptions are not bounded by organs of perception;
he perceives more than sense (thoO ever so acute) can discover.O
When Blake says: Othe outward Creation . . . is as the Dirt upon
my feet, No part of MeO (_VLJ_), he does not deny its
presence (he calls it a Ohindrance,O and says: Owhile we are in the
world of Mortality we must SufferO (_VLJ_)) - but simply
emphasizes that he is directed towards the NspiritualO, which to
him is the substantial life.
When Swedenborg writes: OAppearances are the first Things from
which the human Mind forms its Understanding, and it cannot shake
them off but by an Investigation of the Cause, and if the Cause is
very deep, it cannot investigate it, without keeping
the Understanding some Time in spiritual Light ...,O
Blake makes the annotation: OThis Man can do while in the body.O
BlakeOs outlook is based on this belief that man has the ability to
discern more than his bodily senses allow.
At the NCreationO, the originally infinite organs of man were OshrunkO
(into Ofemale spaceO), and will be expanded when redemption comes,
to again behold Infinity. Our senses can only perceive what they have
been structured to perceive, or as Blake puts it: OIf Perceptive Organs
vary, Objects of Perception seem to vary.O
In _M26_ he says: OEvery Natural Effect has a Spiritual Cause.O
The following villanelle illustrates for me the fact that the
phenomenal world (the NwavesO) are just a mode of Nthe deep:O
villanelle of the waves
your form is magical against the sun
I feel the swell that lifts me to your heart
I know that in the deep weOre joined as one
your spray so fine, your curves compare to none
your lovely shape it is a work of art
your form is magical against the sun
youOre always near me in this race we run
oh canOt we stay this way and never part
I know that in the deep weOre joined as one
we go in stride, we counter-act in fun
and if we seem so diffOrent from the start
your form is magical against the sun
ah do not say our rest cannot be won
I flow into the well-cut grooves you chart
I know that in the deep weOre joined as one
but should we fall to depths of hurt and smart
where currents move each otherOs rise to thwart -
your form is magical against the sun
I know that in the deep weOre joined as one
Izak
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:12:26 -0800
From: Raymond Peat
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Biblical Sources and More
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990304101226.031ea780@mailhost.efn.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Beyond being a mere "alchemist", am I wrong in thinking that Paracelsus
>could also be called a doctor and chemist, who rejected traditional
>education and medicine, anticipated homeopathy, had something to say about
>"miner's disease", and could be viewed as a pioneer in both chemical
>medicine as well as empirical psychological science?
>
> ------ Randall Albright
>
In his time (as in the present time), terrible things were used as
medications, and probably were more deadly than what they were supposed to
cure. Paracelsus invented a magical approach to medicine, in which the
official medical crap would be applied to the sword that made the wound,
leaving the lucky patient unmedicated. When I used to teach naturopathic
physicians, they generally didn't appreciate my suggestion that this
principle could account for the relative success of homeopathy when
compared with 20th century medicine.
The great biochemist, Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, used to observe that humor was
closely allied with the perception of important truth. I think Blake's
humor is generally under-appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:33:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "James Watt"
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: 175 Years Ago...
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I want to second Gloudina's closing remark about Blake's intent. The only
changes I would suggest are minor ones. First that not only did we want
to achieve "a communally reachable new dispensation," but that he, in
fact, did achieve it, repeatedly (thank God!) and that it continues to be
"achieved" today. The other quibble I have concerns the newness of this
dispensation. It was/is new with Jesus and it is/will be always new. I
hasten to add that the Jesus I am talking about is Blake's Jesus, the one
identified in AMERICA by "Albion's Angel" as "Orc, who serpent-form'd/
Stands at the gate of Enitharmon to devour her children;/ Blasphemous
Demon, Antichrist, Hater of Dignities;/ Lover of wild rebellion, and
transgressor of God's Law" (AMERICA 7:3-6). The important point, and one
frequently overlooked in the Blake Group, though, is that the business of
Orc, Los, Enitharmon, indeed the business of the Four Mighty Ones in
Eternity, is always a communal enterprise, not an isolated, individual
one. What is to be rescued is always "a portion of the infinite" (AMERICA
14:19) for it is out of these "portions" Jerusalem is builded. Thanks,
again, Gloudina for your work!
Jim Watt
Butler University
Indianapolis, IN
"Coninually Building, Continually Decaying because of Love & Jealousy"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:33:46 -0800
From: Raymond Peat
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990304103346.031eb068@mailhost.efn.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
At 12:22 PM 3/4/99, you wrote:
>The phenomenal world is called by Blake OgenerationO or the Onatural,O
>and what he calls OmentalO (because it is related to experience by
the mind)
>is what we would call spiritual. The former kind of world is
>perceived with the Oorgans of senseO or the Onatural and bodily organs,O
>the latter kind with the Oimaginative and immortal organsO (_DC: The
>Bard, from Gray_ K576). I believe that in order to follow Blake
>one has to take seriously the existence of these Oimaginative and
>immortal organs.O This places him squarely in the tradition of
>Boehme, Swedenborg, etc.
>In his tractate _NNR_(#2) his first statement is:
>OManOs perceptions are not bounded by organs of perception;
>he perceives more than sense (thoO ever so acute) can discover.O
>When Blake says: Othe outward Creation . . . is as the Dirt upon
>my feet, No part of MeO (_VLJ_), he does not deny its
>presence (he calls it a Ohindrance,O and says: Owhile we are in the
>world of Mortality we must SufferO (_VLJ_)) - but simply
>emphasizes that he is directed towards the NspiritualO, which to
>him is the substantial life.
>
>When Swedenborg writes: OAppearances are the first Things from
>which the human Mind forms its Understanding, and it cannot shake
>them off but by an Investigation of the Cause, and if the Cause is
>very deep, it cannot investigate it, without keeping
>the Understanding some Time in spiritual Light ...,O
>Blake makes the annotation: OThis Man can do while in the body.O
>BlakeOs outlook is based on this belief that man has the ability to
>discern more than his bodily senses allow.
>
>At the NCreationO, the originally infinite organs of man were OshrunkO
>(into Ofemale spaceO), and will be expanded when redemption comes,
>to again behold Infinity. Our senses can only perceive what they have
>been structured to perceive, or as Blake puts it: OIf Perceptive Organs
>vary, Objects of Perception seem to vary.O
>
>In _M26_ he says: OEvery Natural Effect has a Spiritual Cause.O
Since I see Blake as one of the few people who saw clearly in the 18th
century, I like to look for people in this century who worked
constructively with the same themes.
Maurice Merleau-Ponty's work with the phenomenology of perception, building
on the work of people like Kurt Goldstein, elaborates in modern terms this
distinction between passive and active seeing and knowing. From Blake's
references and images, I have guessed that Swedenborg's scientific
discoveries were being discussed by scientific dissenters in London in
Blake's time. The ratio of Blake to Swedenborg would be somewhat
equivalent to that of Merleau-Ponty to Sechenov.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:45:06 EST
From: TomD3456@aol.com
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Message-Id: <12e9161.36dee2c2@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 3/4/99 7:15:15 PM, raypeat@efn.org writes:
>The ratio of Blake to Swedenborg would be somewhat
>equivalent to that of Merleau-Ponty to Sechenov.
This makes me interested in looking into Merleau-Ponty, whom I have
not read.
Perhaps you could identify Sechenov for those of us unfamiliar with
his name.
--Tom Devine
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:56:43 -0500 (EST)
From: "James Watt"
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Biblical Sources and More
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Amen, Raymond. Blake (like Jesus before him) is almost universally under
rated for the quality and wonderful generosity of his humor. thanks for
reminding us. Jim Watt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 15:25:35 -0500
From: Matthew Bodie
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Biblical Sources and More
Message-Id: <20320785940763@ij.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"As a new heaven is begun, and it is now thirty-three years
since its advent: the Eternal Hell revives" statement on plate 3 of MHH...."
Thirty-three years is how old Christ was when he was crucified.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 13:16:59 -0800
From: Raymond Peat
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990304131659.031ebb3c@mailhost.efn.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Around 1860, Sechenov formulated in a detailed way the idea that the brain
and consciousness operate on the basis of reflexes {though Swedenborg seems
to have anticipated the whole idea of the cortex of the brain and its
(nerve cell) elements as the seat of consciousness with its varied
faculties; all apparently for overcoming the dualism of Descartes}. And
then Merleau-Ponty showed why we shouldn't even believe in the literal
reality of reflexes. (P.K. Anokhin worked out the more detailed and modern
reasons for rejecting the simplistic idea of "the reflex arc," almost
literally expressing the idea that we see, actively, through the eyes, not
passively "with" them. In the Russian tradition, the active consciousness
has been taken seriously, unlike those in the west, who with Eccles, have
insisted on separating the body from the (soul or) mind. One of my
professors of neurology, for example, used to sarcastically ask me which I
was going to study, the brain or the mind; he thought Pavlov had rejected
the thought that neurologists could study the mind.
At 02:45 PM 3/4/99 EST, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 3/4/99 7:15:15 PM, raypeat@efn.org writes:
>
>>The ratio of Blake to Swedenborg would be somewhat
>>equivalent to that of Merleau-Ponty to Sechenov.
>
>This makes me interested in looking into Merleau-Ponty, whom I have
not read.
>Perhaps you could identify Sechenov for those of us unfamiliar with
his name.
>
>--Tom Devine
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 07:09:57 PST
From: "David E. Bowes"
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Along the Merleau-Pontian line of inquiry, another book that you might =
find interesting is Drew Leder's "The Absent Body". He takes up the phen=
omenological banner and explains Cartesian Dualism via modes of bodily =
and perceptual absence. Also, in his last chapter he investigates how =
Neo-Confucianism can provide a new paradigm in which to plug in our "live=
d bodily experience" and how this can lead to a new and healthy understan=
ding of the intersubjective "one body" of which we all are a part. Hope =
this helps.
david.
>
> In a message dated 3/4/99 7:15:15 PM, raypeat@efn.org writes:
>
> >The ratio of Blake to Swedenborg would be somewhat
> >equivalent to that of Merleau-Ponty to Sechenov.
>
> This makes me interested in looking into Merleau-Ponty, whom I have not=
read.
> Perhaps you could identify Sechenov for those of us unfamiliar with his=
name.
>
> --Tom Devine
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:31:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "Thomas A. Vogler"
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Biblical Sources and More
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Matthew Bodie points out:
>"As a new heaven is begun, and it is now thirty-three years
>since its advent: the Eternal Hell revives" statement on plate 3 of
MHH...."
>
>Thirty-three years is how old Christ was when he was crucified.
To get Blake's full point here, with all the deictic force of his "now," we
need to add that as he wrote it had been 33 years since Swedenborg grandly
pronounced the _Last Judgment_, and to that add the matter of Jacob & Esau
(Gen 25 ff.).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:13:54 EST
From: TomD3456@aol.com
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Message-Id: <2885b728.36df13b2@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks, Ray and David, for your references and information.
--Tom Devine
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 18:07:35 -0800
From: "Adam C. Komisaruk"
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Message-Id: <199903050201.SAA28846@serval.noc.ucla.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Am I the only one who's gotten about seventy copies of this e-mail in the
last hour? Is there a problem with the server, with the sender, or with me?
At 06:13 PM 3/4/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks, Ray and David, for your references and information.
>--Tom Devine
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:32:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Dushyant Arun Viswanathan
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: stop!!!!
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
stop sending this same email over and over again. my email is completely
clogged. i thought all of you academics would have the sense to think
about that.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:06:05 -0500
From: albright@world.std.com (R.H. Albright)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: 33 Years........
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yes, Matthew and Thomas.
It HAD been 33 years since Blake's birth
when he released that most magnificent of poems:
"The Marriage of Heaven and Hell".
Not to *deny* your other points, too!
---- Randall Albright
>>"As a new heaven is begun, and it is now thirty-three years
>>since its advent: the Eternal Hell revives" statement on plate 3 of
MHH...."
>>
>>Thirty-three years is how old Christ was when he was crucified.
>To get Blake's full point here, with all the deictic force of his "now," we
>need to add that as he wrote it had been 33 years since Swedenborg grandly
>pronounced the _Last Judgment_, and to that add the matter of Jacob & Esau
>(Gen 25 ff.).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:06:50 -0500
From: albright@world.std.com (R.H. Albright)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Orc In "America"
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jim Watt:
You bring tears to my eyes when you confess that you believe that Orc is
Jesus in one of my favorite prophecies, _America_. Your source quotes were
deeply moving. It is one of the most powerful, visual pieces by Blake, to
me, during those peak years when "Newton", "PIty", and various versions of
"Good and Evil Angels" were produced, among other things.
Man was born free-- so why is he EVERYWHERE in chains?
Not only that, but you again bring to mind that Titian "Rape of Europa"
painting which lives in my mind. Considering that Jesus is basically the
Zeus/King of the Gods, I would consider it an honor that Urthona's daughter
gets seduced by him when he breaks free of his chains. She's been feeding
him all these years, watching his development. And she gets a continent
named after her, too.
Not only that, Jim, but this quote from _Jerusalem_ is on one of my
favorite plates:
>"Coninually Building, Continually Decaying because of Love & Jealousy"
The visual imagery of those women crying
as the circle goes round and round...
It's just so true.
--- Randall
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 06:09:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: rpyoder@ualr.edu
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Stop this crazy thing! TomD have mercy!
I know you're not doing on purpose, but can't somebody do something to stop
this repeated thank you?
"Subtle he needs must be, who could seduce / Angels" Milton
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:12:37 -0500
From: Robert Anderson
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990305101236.00a46280@pop.oakland.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Is it just my server malfunctioning or is everyone getting multiple copies
of this posting? It seems this is taking the phrase "many thanks" a bit
too literally.
Rob A
At 06:13 PM 3/4/1999 EST, you wrote:
>Thanks, Ray and David, for your references and information.
>--Tom Devine
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:46:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Cate McClenahan
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: overload!
Message-Id: <01J8GVG91FO28WWA7A@grove.iup.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Hi: I'm wondering why I have about 80 copies of the same message -- my email
account is swamped! Cate McClenahan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:26:29 -0500 (EST)
From: johnmartinevansiii
To: TomD3456@aol.com
Cc: blake
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I have received 50 of these messages from tom through the list. could
someone please track this down and fix it? I'm assuming I'm not the only
one here? it's either tom or the list itself...
-john
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 TomD3456@aol.com wrote:
> Thanks, Ray and David, for your references and information.
> --Tom Devine
>
John M. Evans III
(203)764-7217
Yale University
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:37:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Alan Lopez
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Spam?
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I have received over 60 repetitive messages of Blake's "organ of
perception" written by Mr. Devine. Has anyone had a similar experience?
The messages are at at intervals, so I will receive about 20 messages one
hour and then 16 more the next hour. The messages all have the same sent
time, so I don't believe they are being sent again by Mr. Devine. Is
there an internal problem with the list serv? Thanks for any answers.
Alan Lopez alopez@iusb.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:02:40 -0500 (EST)
From: johnmartinevansiii
To: blake
Subject: tom's messages
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
seth -
I am leaving town until sunday night. can we please get this email thing
fixed, or at least pull me from the list until it is? I can't afford to
have my email box locked...
-john
John M. Evans III
(203)764-7217
Yale University
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 99 13:36:06 -0800
From: Seth T. Ross
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: emergency Blake List shutdown
Message-Id: <9903052136.AA19082@albion.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
There appears to an email looping problem that's affecting a portion
of the distribution list. I'm taking the Blake List offline until I
can figure out what's happening and correct it. Please refrain from
posting until further notice.
--Seth
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for all administrative queries.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 18:06:54 -0500
From: Dawn
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990305180654.006c4d44@mail.smith.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I got this message almost 150 times. What's up?
At 06:13 PM 3/4/99 EST, you wrote:
>Thanks, Ray and David, for your references and information.
>--Tom Devine
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:35:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Alan Lopez
To: TomD3456@aol.com
Cc: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Why do I continue to receive this e-mail?!
Alan Lopez
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 TomD3456@aol.com wrote:
> Thanks, Ray and David, for your references and information.
> --Tom Devine
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:30:10 -0800
From: Kerry McKeever
To: "'blake@albion.com'"
Subject: RE: organs of perception
Message-Id: <01BE67BC.610CE460.mckeever@uidaho.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am getting flooded with repeats of this message. Does anyone know
what is going on? Best, Kerry McKeever
-----Original Message-----
From: TomD3456@aol.com [SMTP:TomD3456@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 3:14 PM
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: organs of perception
Thanks, Ray and David, for your references and information.
--Tom Devine
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 99 11:19:02 -0800
From: Seth T. Ross
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Blake List test -- DO NOT REPLY
Message-Id: <9903111919.AA00292@albion.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
This is a test. PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE. Details to come.
--STR
PS Administrative queries always go to blake-request@albion.com
--------------------------------
End of blake-d Digest V1999 Issue #17
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