Blake List — Volume 1998 : Issue 78

Today's Topics:
	 In defense of the Worm -Reply
	 Re: understanding of innocence and experience...
	 Re: invoking spirits/  litereature as transformative
	 Blake and The Adoration of Captain Shit
	 Re: invoking spirits/  litereature as transformative
	 Re:  In defense of the Worm -Reply
	 Blake's Garden in Felpham
	 Re: understanding of innocence and experience...
	 William Blake Archive news
	 Any news?
	 Re: Blake and his Tate move
	 Re: Blake and his Tate move


Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:06:55 +0200
From: P Van Schaik 
Subject: In defense of the Worm -Reply

I think this is a difficult point to debate, Tom, but am glad  to try. Up to
now, I have always understood that there are Contraries in Innocence in
ETernity - like the Tiger and Lamb but that there, as no being sustains a
fixed form of Selfhood for long, the Contraries are in their most pristine
form of being necessary for Progression. In my opinion, Eternity  is not
static for a millisecond since all things are continually intermingling in the
ardours of love , in imitation of the holy unions of Jesus and Jerusalem,
whom Blake sees as the progenitors of all that exists in Eternity. All this
intermingling ensures that flux and transience are the essence of
Innocence, thus the Lily of the Valley when plucked or chewed by the
hungry cow doesn't mourn -- knowing that her usefulness to another  is
the prime , incessantly repeated event in ETernity ... of every  being
giving self for evoked in the  Clod of Clay's reply to the
obdurate and hard, self-enclosed Pebble.  (THis insight is what I see the
Book of Thel being primarily about, and it portrays the lesson Thel has to
learn if she is not to fall into the selfish horrors of the fallen world)  SO,
there is the Worm in the Rose and the Tiger eating the LAmb even
,presumably, in the expansive heavens of Eden and upper Beulah,  but
as all beings there know that they are there to serve all others by
gratifiying `the lineaments of desire' in all its forms, and also know that
their Selfhoods are nothing, and that they receive Crowns of shining gold
when they are not stuck in the small aspect of their beings (the dark
node of Selfhood at the centre of their expanded biengs of light) they
generously and gladly give their lives.  As `the soul of sweet delight'
never really dies because all beings, and every particle of existence truly
is part of immortal God, death is an illusion. (For full references, you'd
need to look up my theses in which I prove these points at length by
quotation -- sorry, I don't have time  to look them up ... but once you begin
to see this pattern, you'll see it more and more clearly in  the longer
poems as well as THe Books of Los and Ahania and THel.  From the
above, a corollary is that part of the error involved in the Fall is  our
mortal oblivion to the fact that transience is the real substrate of being
--interestingly close to modern quantum theories
in that the denizens of ETernity can be expanded and then act as
`waves' or contracted toward their smaller ego-selves and then are
seen as `embodied' as LAmbs, tigers, lilies, etc.

Anyway, because the fallen world is a distorted version of the unfallen
one, there are also Contraries like the Tiger and LAmb there, but because
the Devourer becomes out of harmony and balance with the Prolific very
often in the fallen world, the Devourer can also be construed as a
Negative.  To restore balance to the equation while we are on earth is to
remove the NEgation and restore it to its functional, contrary status
where `contrarieties are equally true' and serve a mutually useful
purpose.  This is rather more complex than  most readers are aware of,
but I think accurately reflects Blake's vision.  His view of contraries is
quite similar to kabbalistic notions of the constant balance which is
attained on the Tree of Life where the divine energy flows  from one
side to the other constantly to prevent any of the radiances from
becoming out of balance with the others.  In kabbalah, when Din, the
contrary of Hesed, (i.e. Divine rigour as opposed to divine abundance)
grows too severe and harsh, then a contraction sets in the godhead, as
in Urizen who creates a vacuum  in Eternity.... and all begins to darken
and contract into the SElfhood.


I didn't know Kabbalah when I first tried to outline Blake's vision, except
by hearsay and slenderly, but found that what I had presented as
Blake's cosmogony exactly fit the model I later encountered ... an
encouraging sign of being somehow on the right track, I think.
I therefore think that the Contraries have not been fully understood by
critics  -- they relate to the whole question of masculine/feminine entities
and the need for every substance in Eternity to be clothed in both
masculine and feminine garments to sustain harmony and unity. The
Spectres become ravening Devourers when deprived of their female

Hope this clarifies and doesn't enrage those who think differently.


Date: 	Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:09:41 +0600 (EDT)
From: Meredith Thomson 
Subject: Re: understanding of innocence and experience...
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	If I could add one more note to Matthew's commentary on innocence
and experience, and the debates about them.  There is a third
state Blake mentions as an ideal to strive towards.  He calls it the state
of "organized innocence," when the individual moves beyong is being either
ignorant, nor trapped in a sorrowful/cynical
view of life.  He finds his way to a higher joy that he finds on the
far side of learning and suffering, when his vision is renewed after,
perhaps, being lost for a time.   It's like being really sick or
injured and getting well -- you are no
longer obivious to just how much life can hurt and threaten, but when
you get out of bed at last you can appreciate being alive as you never
could before. Innocence and experience are never places you should stay
forever but portions of existence you pass through; to
remain a naive child, or feel yourself a betrayed one, is to make no
progression at all towards vision.  

	It's really a shock to realize as Blake readers how we have to
struggle with what seems at first so simple!  And of course, our struggles
often lead us in different directions toward progression.

			Meredith Thomson

On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Matthew Bodie wrote:

> At 05:20 PM 10/9/98 -0300, you wrote:
> >Hey all!
> >
> >Does anyone happen to have any ideas on what Blake's understandings of
> >the terms "innocence" and "experience"?  I'd really appreciate some
> >help...
> Vanessa:
> Pam & Tom have done a fine job of giving you a place to start in your search
> for the meaning of innocence and experience.  One thing of note, however, that
> you will find in some commentaries on the subject is Blake's approbation of
> the
> imagination or vision.   
> The state of innocence breeds imagination.  There are many examples of this
> but
> most notably is the piper, who writes all of the songs with a "rural pen"
> formed from a "hollow reed."  That's a pretty amazing feat!  It shows some
> serious delving into the imagination.  
> Furthermore, Tom Dacre's vision in "Chimney Sweeper" and the relevancy it has
> within his everyday life shows a keen sense of vision.   Based upon his dream,
> Tom looks beyond the poor nature of his current life, thinking that if he
> continues his duty he'll have God as his father and never fear harm.  In
> essence, his perspective or vision on life makes him feel comfort.   
> Moreover, as you might find in some of the commentary you're reading, Vanessa,
> there is a debate about Tom Dacre's vision.  Some say that the vision of the
> angel allowed Tom to create a more positive perspective on life; for he is now
> able to continue, what once he may have seen as a tragic life, with joy,
> knowing that God has replaced the father who sold him off.   Others still see
> this vision as no respite from this tragic way of life.  When all is said and
> done at the end of the day, he's still a sweep without a father; in addition,
> he is prone to physical deformity and ailment from having to climb up in
> chimneys that are so narrow a contortionist couldn't even find a way up their
> aperture, or so full of soot that they make a smoker's lung looks healthy.
> (My,
> what a fallacious picture _Mary Poppins_ paints with its whole carefree nature
> of the life of a sweep!)    
> Also, some critics will take up the argument that the angel is part of the
> schema of the God-priest-king unit that Blake seems to repudiate in his other
> works, for he seemed to see Christendom to be tainted by the church-state
> union.   Instead of focusing on Jesus or his selfless nature that every person
> should follow as we all are created in his image, many so-called
> Christians, in
> Blake's view, displayed piety only when necessary; otherwise, they were
> insincere and uncompassionate.  Seemingly, Christianity was more a matter of
> diplomacy.  
> At any rate, no matter which way you look at it, Dacre does seem to have quite
> a vision.  If it is to be concluded from Blake's writings that joy is one of
> the most desirable things to have in the state of innocence, and more than
> likely it is, then Dacre found it, either way, through vision.
> In contrast to the state of innocence, however, is the state of experience.
>  It
> doesn't concentrate on vision or imagination as  innocence does.   For
> instance, Dacre finds comfort in his circumstances through his own sense of
> imagination, but Lyca doesnít seem to do the same.   She is lost, and she only
> continues to fear what lurks about; for it could be the scornful priests, the
> bright tyger,  a selfish pebble, or as it turns out, an equivocal lion.  
> Perhaps if Lyca were in the state of innocence, she could have found God, as
> the little boy lost did; but experience does not lend her to such faith, such
> imagination.   
> I do, however, concede with Glecknerís point of view (_Piper and the Bard_)
> that one must exist in the state of experience at  some point in time, or
> perhaps more often than not,  in order to move forward to a higher
> innocence.  
> Much of Blakeís thought here seems to be based on redemption through Jesus and
> the byproducts of his incarnation:  selflessness & imagination.  In one of the
> poems in the Songs of Innocence (Iím sorry I donít have the text  in front of
> me right this moment), the mother cries over her infant, for he/she reminds
> her
> of Christ and his infancy,  and his ensuing life & death.  The mother knows
> that her infant must face similar happiness and similar woes, but
> redemption/higher innocence is attainable; so it's a weeping of both joy &
> sorrow.    
> I hope this helps some, despite its discursiveness.
> Matthew      


Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:48:45 +0200
From: P Van Schaik 
Subject: Re: invoking spirits/  litereature as transformative

I have been  re-reading your response to some of BLake's most lyrical
passages in which all creatures, great and small, are rehumanised, as
first time round I was trying to catch up  on what I'd missed on recess.
Do you think , in the next century, there could be a move towards dealing
more and more with literature as transformative?  This would be a
welcome change, and one I've been trying to bring about by suggesting
such wherever possible.  The forthcoming BARS conference seems to
provide such an  opportunity to deal with  REvelation as transforming,
don't you think?  Are some of you going to try to give papers there? It
would be a fine place for us to meet each other, if possible.  THE 
organisers of the  Conference I attended in Sydney are planning an
interdisciplinary one for 2000  in which such views would be welcome,


Date: Fri, 16 Oct 98 10:27:04 +0100 ( + )
From: Paul Tarry 
Subject: Blake and The Adoration of Captain Shit
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Hi everyone,
British painter Chris Ofili is fast distinguishing himself as one of the 
most innovative young artists working in Britain today. He has 
recently been nominated for both this year's Turner and Jerwood 
prizes and has his first solo exhibition in London currently running at 
the Serpentine Gallery (until Nov 1st, also check the upcoming 
Turner Prize show at the Tate). 

Amongst the stylistic mix Ofili lists influences as diverse as William 
Blake, Basquiat, Mohammad Ali, hip hop (especially diva Lil' Kim), 
Blaxploitation films and the sexual underground of Kings Cross. 
According to the show guide "Ofili's provocative images swarm with 
colour, pattern and collage. Sparring with many of our prejudices and 
preconceptions, Ofili creates a world where kitsch hangs out with 
sophistication, beauty confronts ugliness, and the sacred clashes 
with the profane."

He also uses a lot of shit. Elephant dung has become his trademark 
since he set up a stall in Brick Lane market and displayed the shit he 
had picked up in Zimbabwe. Today lumps covered with resin support 
his paintings (they don't hang to the wall) and are often part of the 
surface of his work.

Ofili has said that he can make versions of other people's art works 
but change them with his own agenda. A postmodern borrowing and 
mixing of styles that works in the context of sampling, scratching and 
rapping in the hip hop tradition. "Satan" (1995) is based on a small 
water-colour by Blake, entitled "Satan in his Original Glory or Thou 
was perfect till iniquity was found in thee" c. 1805. Blake's Satan 
is a youthful, celestial body, shown casting away the jewels of 
heaven and ascending to darkness. In Ofili's version, light and 
darkness are reversed. The figure of Satan is submerged in raging 
swirls of red, orange and black on a white ground. His jewels have 
been exchanged for lumps of elephant dung. With the satanic motif 
of fire and brimstone the image is both comic and apocalyptic and fits 
in nicely with Ofili's interest in the beautiful and repulsive.

The show as a whole turns through the beautiful bewildering and 
extremely funny. "Popcorn Tits" like the other paintings is covered in 
map pins, dung mounds (particularly well used here) and collaged 
cutouts from magazines sealed in resin. The repetitive dots and 
concentric circular forms that surround the collaged cutouts of female 
breasts make the latter, at one time, erupt like sunbursts, at another, 
hide coquettishly amongst the red popcorn shapes. As in much of the 
work, the references in "Popcorn tits" are multifarious.

 "The Adoratrion of Captain Shit and the Legend of the Black Stars" 
is derived from a painting by Francis Picabia. Ofili substitutes his 
superhero, Captain Shit, for the calf headed figure in Picabia. 

I thoroughly enjoyed the show, catch it if you can. After popping into 
the Tate yesterday I got on something of a gallery binge. The Blake 
exhibit has moved back into the room with the mosaic designs of 
Blakean proverbs on the floor. One other point of interest amongst 
the crashingbanging of the immense building work at the Tate; 
according to the plans the summer of 2001 will mark the opening of 
the new style Tate Gallery which will be based largely on the history 
of British art. We are thereby promised extra room for the displaying of 
works by WB. As part of the Tate expansion the new Museum of 
Modern Art will be opening further up the river. 

Take flair,



Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:01:24 -0400
From: (Bert Stern)
Subject: Re: invoking spirits/  litereature as transformative
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        Pam asks:  "Do you think , in the next century, there could be a
move towards dealing
more and more with literature as transformative?"

        Such an interesting question, Pam.  But how to wrap around it?  I
think first of Woody Allen's--I may not have the title exact--"Kl=FCglemass
Episode"--where the transformation goes the other way, and the character
enters "Madame Bovary," terribly messing up the novel.

        But comedy aside, what can it mean for literature to be

        *All of us, presumably, as readers who began as children, were
transformed by our reading experience.  Life had wings, it was vaster than
anything on the block or two that was our world, there were human beings
more daring and more glittering than anyone in the misphuchah.  We dreamed
of them, we wanted their company, we longed for wider and deeper life.

        *Poetry taught us fourfoldness and energy.   Things not mere
objects, stasis always an illusion, a world in a grain of sand,  etc.

        *Some of us were infected with literature's dangerous ethos:
Huck's, "All right, then, I'll go to hell";  Conrad's Stein's (?) "in the
destructive element immerse"' Ivan K's "If God is dead, everything is
allowed";  William James's (and, I suppose, Jesus's) notion of "the

        *Some of us learned, from Blake and Dickens, from Flaubert, from
Marx, from everyone, "how beastly the bourgeoise is," though few of us
managed successful separations.

        *Many of us learned that God was dead, whatever that might mean,
and that it meant, inter alia, that we couldn't shore our fragments against
our ruin and that there was abundant fear in a handful of dust.

        *Some of us heard early hints of the problematic global village in
Marx's "In place of the old wants, satisfied by the productions of country,
we find new wants, requiring for their satisfaction the products of distant
lands and climes.  In place of the old local and national seclusion and
self-sufficiency, we have intercourse in every direction, universal
interdependence of nations.  And as in material, so also in intellectual
porduction.  The intellectual creations of individual nations become common
property, national one-sidedness and narrow mindedness become more and more
impossible, and from the numerous national and local literatures, there
arises a world literature."

        A doctrine  oddly reiterated and rooted in literary practice by
Eliot and Pound, resisted by Carlos Williams.

        This is hardly the beginning of a list, but maybe enough to begin a
conversation.  Myself, I don't have high hopes for the millenium, but what
the hell.   I'm an old man and I'm not supposed to be looking at the future
with great expectations.



Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:48:52 EDT
Subject: Re:  In defense of the Worm -Reply
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Thanks for your answers to my questions.  And, of course, here are some more
questions as a result.

I still suspect your description fits Blake's Beulah, that "pleasant lovely
shadow/Where no dispute can come" (Milton, 30:2-3 (Erdman text)), better than
it fits his Eden.  Here's why.  

You write,
>To restore balance to the equation while we are on earth is to
>remove the Negation and restore it to its functional, contrary status
>where `contrarieties are equally true' and serve a mutually useful

It is Beulah that is described (Milton, 30:1) as a place where `contrarieties
are equally true'; which, I suppose, is why "no dispute can come" there.  But
if the contraries are to function as contraries, even in Heaven, must they not
appear (at least to each other, or to their holders) as UNequal in truth-
value?  How else could there be "Mental War," any change or progression?

For in Eden, as described in _Milton_, there are disputes.  Eden (as described
in the same passage) is the place where:

  As the breath of the Almighty, such are the words of man to man
  In the great Wars of Eternity, in fury of Poetic Inspiration,
  To build the Universe stupendous: Mental forms Creating.

This is the aspect that I miss in your description.

Eden and Beulah, as described in this passage from _Milton_, are a pair of
contraries like Experience and Innocence, and quite explicitly described as
masculine and feminine realms, respectively.  The life of Blake's Eternity
seems to be an alternation between them, or a combination of them.

You began your posting with the statement,
>I have always understood that there are Contraries in Innocence in Eternity

"Innocence in Eternity" is concept I have never come across; but, if Beulah
and Eden are indeed like Innocence and Experience, would "Innocence in
Eternity" not be a good description of Beulah?  And then could "Experience in
Eternity" describe Eden?

That is to say, How do you fit the "fury," the "great Wars of Eternity," into
your picture?  Blake's description of Eden (in the passage I quote above)
seems different in tone from your description of "all things... continually
intermingling in the... ardours of love, in imitation of the holy unions of
Jesus and Jerusalem."  Not that your description is unBlakean, or unsupported
by Blake's texts about Eternity, but I am still feeling that your description,
as far as I understand it, omits the more fiery, more conflictual (?) side of
Blake's vision in favor of the more Beulah-like side.

--Tom Devine


Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:48:46 EDT
Subject: Blake's Garden in Felpham
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To any who have visited Blake's cottage in Felpham, this query:

In _Milton_, plate 35-36, Blake describes "a Fountain in a rock / Of crystal
flowing into two streams."  This "Rock of Odours" is covered over by wild
thyme, and there is a lark's nest there.  After an extended, symbol-laden
description, Blake writes:
  ...& the Twenty-eighth bright
  Lark met the Female Ololon descending into my Garden

So I'm wondering, is there, or was there, an actual fountain in the garden of
Blake's cottage at Felpham?  Is the description of the "rock of odours" based
on a real rock in Blake's real garden?

If anyone has investigated this, I would appreciate knowing the answer.

--Tom Devine


Date: Fri, 16 Oct 98 13:20:11 -0700
From: Seth T. Ross 
Subject: Re: understanding of innocence and experience...
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Forwarding for Jim Watt ...

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Thu, 15 Oct 98 15:45:25 -0700
From: "James Watt" 
Subject: Re: understanding of innocence and experience...

> Just a note, Blakeans, to "second" Jennifer's remark on the
> cotemporanaiety (is that a word?) of Innocence and Experience.  Not only
> do they exist together, I believe they occupy the same "space" in the
> mind.  That is, when I am engaged (either reading or conversing) with
> another intellect and spirit, I am constantly processing the conversation
> from both states: part of me is, if you will, "innocently" responding and
> part of me is responding out of experience.  This makes, for me, it
> possible to understand both the temporal and the eternal source of the
> remarks I am both reading/hearing and thinking/responding.  Of course, I
> am not always so fully engaged, and often, alas, fall in to my culture's
> propensity to believe that the best that can be thought has been said.
> Jim Watt
> Butler Univ.
> Indianapolis, IN
> "Preach the Gospel," says St. Francis, "if necessary, in words."


Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:14:21 -0400
From: Patricia Neill 
Subject: William Blake Archive news
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The editors of the William Blake Archive
 are pleased to announce the
publication of four new electronic editions of Blake's illuminated
books. They are:

_The Ghost of Abel_ copy A (The Library of Congress)

_On Homers Poetry [and] On Virgil_ copies B (The Fitzwilliam Museum) and
F (The Pierpont Morgan Library)

_Laocoon_ copy B (collection of Robert N. Essick)

These three works are Blake's final illuminated books, their composition
dateable between 1822 (_The Ghost of Abel_, _On Homers Poetry [and] On
Virgil_) and c. 1826-27 (_Laocoon_). In the words of Sir Geoffrey
Keynes, they offer Blake's "Last Testament" on subjects ranging from
aesthetic theory to political economy, from forgiveness to apocalyptic
judgment. A drama in miniature, _The Ghost of Abel_ addresses "Lord
Byron in the Wilderness" (plate 1) and, more specifically, the issues of
vengeance and forgiveness raised by Byron's _Cain: A Mystery_ (1821).
The broadsheet _On Homers Poetry [and] On Virgil_ challenges these
representative figures of classical learning, with special emphasis on
concepts of unity as an artistic ideal, identity, and the destructive
consequences of imperialism. There are five copies extant for each of
these works, which, like most of Blake's illuminated books, were
produced in relief etching; the _Laocoon_ plate, which is an intaglio
etching/engraving, is extant in two copies. Through a careful
representation and restoration of the famous Hellenistic sculptural
group, Blake attempts to return the _Laocoon_ to its supposed Hebraic
origins and its allegorical meanings, revealed by the terse yet
intellectually expansive texts with which Blake surrounds the central

All of these editions have newly edited SGML-encoded texts and are all
fully searchable for both text and images and supported by the unique
Inote and ImageSizer applications described in our previous updates.  We
now have twenty-six copies of sixteen illuminated books in the Archive.
Late this year and early in the next, we will add _Milton_ copy D and
_Jerusalem_ copy E. We will also be adding at least six more copies of
_Songs of Innocence and of Experience_, two copies of _Songs of
Innocence_, five copies of _The Marriage of Heaven and Hell_, four
copies of _The Book of Urizen_, and two copies each of _America, a
Prophecy_ and _Europe, a Prophecy_. In addition, by the end of 1998 we
will provide a fully-searchable SGML edition of David V. Erdman's
_Complete Poetry and Prose of William Blake_.

In the coming weeks we will also be opening a brand-new wing of the
Archive, consisting of an extensive array of supporting materials: an
updated and expanded Plan of the Archive, a statement of Editorial
Principles and Methodology, a summary of the Archive's technical design
and implementation, a list of Frequently Asked Questions, an in-depth
illustrated Tour highlighting the Archive's features and some ways to
use its resources, and more. Our hope is that these extensive
documentary materials will prove valuable both to our own growing user
community as well as to scholars interested in the theory and practice
of electronic editing more generally. We will make a separate
announcement when these materials are available on the site.

Finally, on our recently opened Contributing Collections page, we plan
to begin adding color-coded and linked lists of each institution's
entire Blake collection to indicate what is and is not in the Archive
and what is forthcoming. In addition to providing a convenient index of
the scope and contents of the Archive, these lists should also be useful
to scholars in planning research trips.

Morris Eaves, Robert Essick, Joseph Viscomi


Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:19:43 -0400
From: Patricia Neill 
Subject: Any news?
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_Blake/An Illustrated Quarterly_ is looking for news for its newsletter
section. If any of you have any news that might be of interest to Blake's
readers, please let me know. 

We're also thinking of putting together a "Works in Progress" list, so if
any of you are working on books or other Blakean related projects, please
send a short description. We are considering making this a regular feature.

Patricia Neill


Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:35:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Blake and his Tate move
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You refer to the Tate move--what is the current state of affairs at the the
Tate in regard to Mr. Blake---???


Date: Sat, 17 Oct 98 08:58:03 +0100 ( + )
From: Paul Tarry 
Subject: Re: Blake and his Tate move
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>You refer to the Tate move--what is the current state of affairs at the 
>the Tate in regard to Mr. Blake---???

Hi Chatham,
at the moment the Tate Gallery devotes one room to its Blake 
collection and changes the exhibition four times each year, 
incorporating various themes and links (especially to "The 
Ancients"). With the opening of the new and expanded Tate in 2001 
the gallery will change back to the original focus of its founder and 
offer a history of British art in one building type thang. The rest of its 
modern holdings will be incorporated into the new Tate Museum of 
Modern Art. According to the plans this new set-up will offer a lot 
more space devoted to the work of major British artists such as 
"Hogarth and Blake." Which sounds encouraging.

Viva Blake,



Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:26:16 +0100
From: "Dave & Bev Popely" 
To: "William Blake" 
Subject: guidance
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I am an English student at Greenwhich Uni. 2nd year and grappling with
Blake. I find him an enigmatic poet, fascinating and baffleing. Can anyone
reccomend a biography apart from Ackroyd's and a/some commenteries on his
work? Any help would be gratefully received.

Please reply:

End of blake-d Digest V1998 Issue #78