Today's Topics:
Re: Mental Traveller
Re: fame. -Reply
Re: Re: fame. -Reply
Re: fame and nature
Mental Traveller
Source?
Re: Source?
Re: Source?
Joining
Mental Traveller
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Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:57:41
From: Izak Bouwer
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Mental Traveller
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Hi Wendy, if you are still there, and still thinking
about MT:=20
I think where many interpretations of MT fall short=20
is in their disregard of the spiritual dimension in
Blake. Thus, the common observation that MT
describes the =93same dull round over and over,=94=20
is simply short-sighted and short-changes the
content of the poem.
The word =93mental=94 in the title should already
provide us with a focus.
For Blake states that =93Mental Things are alone Real=94
(_VLJ_ E555), and he considers it his GREAT TASK
to =93open the Eternal Worlds, to open the immortal
Eyes of Man inwards into the Worlds of Thought:
into Eternity . . .=94 (_J_5:18-19, E146)
The word =93mental=94 is one that Blake uses where
today we might use the word =93spiritual.=94 (For instance,
in _Jerusalem77_ he asks: =93What are the Treasures of=20
Heaven which we are to lay up for ourselves, are they
any other than Mental Studies & Performances? What=20
are all the Gifts of the Gospel, are they not all Mental=20
Gifts?=94) =20
=93This world of Imagination is the World of Eternity . . .=94
he states in _VLJ_, and: =93All Things are comprehended=20
in their Eternal Forms in the Divine body of the Saviour,=20
the True Vine of Eternity The Human Imagination who=20
appeard to Me as Coming to Judgment.=94
The word =93Traveller=94 in the title should also alert
one that this is a story of a journey. But in this case,
it is a =93mental=94 journey. In his _VLJ_ Blake makes
reference to the states of the Last Judgment, and says:=20
=93These States Exist now [;] Man Passes on but States
remain for Ever [;] he passes thro them like a traveller
who may as well suppose that the places he has passed=20
thro exist no more . . .=94
These states have a certain dynamism. Again in _VLJ_
=93All Life consists of these Two [:] Throwing off Error
<& Knaves> continually [,] & recieving Truth Continually=94 =20
In my opinion this process, reminiscent of the phases of=20
the moon, is that described in the MT.
Izak Bouwer=20
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Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:01:45 -0600
From: jmichael@sewanee.edu (J. Michael)
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: fame. -Reply
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>I know that (Blake wrote very often about Christian subjects, and he sure
>wasn't a supporter of the Church!), but I haven't seen anything
>specifically relating to the fall. Could you site specific passages?
It depends how explicit you want them to be. "A Poison Tree" is often read
as a variation on the account of the fall in Genesis. "Infant Sorrow"
describes the child's "fiendish" energy being repressed into passive
"sulking". "The Garden of Love" attacks the church's role in the fall
(destroying the garden by forbidding its pleasures). The Introduction to
_Songs of Experience_ speaks of "fallen fallen light."
The prophetic book _The Four Zoas_ takes as its explicit subject "His [the
Universal Man's] fall into Division & his Resurrection to Unity / His fall
into the Generation of Decay & Death & his Regeneration by the Resurrection
from the dead." I find that pretty explicit.
Jennifer Michael
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Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:02:49 EST
From: TomD3456
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Re: fame. -Reply
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Jenny-
One reason why you might not have seem "anything specifically relating to
the fall" is that Blake's theology does not map onto Christian theology
in a straightforward fashion. Jennifer Michael has already mentioned the
Book of Urizen. That poem is essentially a version of Genesis, complete
with the Fall -- but it's not the fall of Adam and Eve. It's more like
the fall of God (Urizen) -- but he takes the rest of us with him. It's
been said (I forget by whom -- Frye??) that for Blake, the Creation and
the Fall are the same event: The Creation is a fall from Eternity into
Time (which is pretty much what happens to Adam and Eve anyway). This
concept is apparently a major characteristic of Gnostic doctrine, too.
Isak mentions "A Vision of the Last Judgment," and Blake's remarks toward
the end of that piece -- last three pages in Erdman's edition -- are very
much about the Fall, Satan, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil,
and the Tree of Life. And spectacularly illuminating.
--Tom Devine
>I know that (Blake wrote very often about Christian subjects, and he sure
>wasn't a supporter of the Church!), but I haven't seen anything
>specifically relating to the fall. Could you site specific passages?
>
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Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:05:29 -0900
From: ndeeter
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: fame and nature
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Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:24:14 -0900
From: ndeeter
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Subject: re: fame and nature
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I agree with J. Michael and Tom Devine. Blake being so interested in
innocence and experience, would have to be writing, at the heart of that
duality which is the Fall from innocence into experience. I find it
difficult NOT to read the Fall into the songs.
I've mentioned this before, but a whole Tarot deck has been dedicated to
Blake's system and one of the primary concerns of Tarot, specifically in
the major arcana is that of the spiritual fall from innocence (0: The
Fool) and ascent into the unified Divine (21: The World).
Nathan Deeter
ndeeter@concentric.net
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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 00:08:56 -0800
From: Wendy Williams
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Mental Traveller
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I have been unsuccessful in my search for "The Mental Traveller":Man's
Eternal Journey, by Izak Bouwer and Paul McNally. Is there any way I
could get this online? Many thanks to all of you who have contributed
to the question I originally posed. The responses have been very
helpful. Wendy Williams wjw@ptld.uswest.net
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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 10:40:28 -0800
From: Wendy Williams
To: blake
Subject: Source?
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Where in Blake does this come from: Are these not the places of
religion, the rewards of continence, The self-enjoyings of self denial?
Can that be love that drinks another as a sponge drinks water, that
clouds with jealousy his nights, with weeping all the day. This was
used in an article, but there was no source.
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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:15:39 EST
From: TomD3456
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Source?
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Wendy-
The passage you asked about is from Visions of the Daughters of Albion, one of
the early Illuminated Books. It's plate 10, lines 8-9 and 17-18 (following
the new Princeton edition).
--Tom Devine
In a message dated 3/1/98 5:18:31 PM, you wrote:
>Where in Blake does this come from:
>Are these not the places of religion, the rewards of continence,
>The self-enjoyings of self denial?...
>Can that be love that drinks another as a sponge drinks water,
>That clouds with jealousy his nights, with weepings all the day.
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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 22:42:25
From: Izak Bouwer
To: blake@albion.com
Subject: Re: Source?
Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980301224225.452f6832@igs.net>
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At 10:40 AM 3/1/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Where in Blake does this come from: Are these not the places of
>religion, the rewards of continence, The s