Today's Topics:
Blake & Gnostic Gospels
Re: Blake & Gnostic Gospels
Re: Blake & Gnostic Gospels
Re: Blake & Gnostic Gospels
Re: Blake & Gnostic Gospels
Re: Blake & Gnostic Gospels
calling Pam van Shaik
Blake and Gnosticism
Re: calling Pam van Shaik
Re: calling Pam van Shaik -Reply
fame.
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Subject: Blake & Gnostic Gospels
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:10:26 EST
From: KIRA5@aol.com
To: blake@albion.com
Hello everyone. My name is Beth and I am brand new around here so please be
kind. I am endeavouring to write a research paper, at Old Dominion Univertity
in Virginia, on the influence of the Gnostic Gospels, and Blakes enthusiasm
for them, on his work. I would like to focus on the art aspect more than the
writing as it is for an art history course. Of course one can never fully
separate the two in my opinion. The problem is that I can find no resources
for research. If anyone has any Titles for me to look for or sites where I
can find info please let me know. Of course if anyone has a personal opinion
on the matter it is also very welcome. Thank you in advance.
Beth Kira5@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Blake & Gnostic Gospels
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:16:51 -0500
From: Robert Anderson
To: blake@albion.com
E.P Thompson discusses the subject in a general (and brief) way (although
not in respect to the visual dimension to Blake's work) in _Witness Against
the Beast_ (pages 34-35 and 227-28). I believe Abrams discusses it in
_Natural Supernaturalism_ and Thompson also refers to Ferber's book _The
Social Vision of Wiliam Blake_ and to Stuart Curran's essay "Blake and His
Gnostic Style" in _Blake Studies_ vol 4. no. 2 in Spring 1972.
Good luck,
Rob Anderson
Oakland University
At 07:10 PM 2/17/1998 EST, you wrote:
>Hello everyone. My name is Beth and I am brand new around here so please be
>kind. I am endeavouring to write a research paper, at Old Dominion
Univertity
>in Virginia, on the influence of the Gnostic Gospels, and Blakes enthusiasm
>for them, on his work. I would like to focus on the art aspect more than the
>writing as it is for an art history course. Of course one can never fully
>separate the two in my opinion. The problem is that I can find no resources
>for research. If anyone has any Titles for me to look for or sites where I
>can find info please let me know. Of course if anyone has a personal opinion
>on the matter it is also very welcome. Thank you in advance.
>
> Beth Kira5@aol.com
>
>
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Subject: Re: Blake & Gnostic Gospels
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:33:21 -0500
From: Bill & Ingrid Wagner
To: blake@albion.com
>>Ferber's book _The Social Vision of Wiliam Blake
I think of this book as the possible Social application of W.B.
Feber done good.
Bill
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Subject: Re: Blake & Gnostic Gospels
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:16:26 EST
From: NorNob@aol.com
To: blake@albion.com
Beth,
To the best of my knowledge Blake's only access to Christian Gnostic
texts would have been in English translations (probably) of ancient orthodox
Christian texts such as Irenaeus' attacks on the Gnostics. Correct me if I'm
wrong. This subject fascinates me, and I fairly recently finished Elaine
Pagels book on the Gnostic gospels. Please keep us informed.
Ron Javorcky
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Subject: Re: Blake & Gnostic Gospels
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:01:26 -0600 (CST)
From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly)
To: blake@albion.com
See also William Dennis Horn, "Blake's Revisionism: Gnostic
Interpretation and Critical Methodology," in _Critical Paths: Blake
and the Argument of Method_, eds. Miller, Bracher, Ault, Duke
University Press, 1987.
You wrote:
>
>E.P Thompson discusses the subject in a general (and brief) way
(although
>not in respect to the visual dimension to Blake's work) in _Witness
Against
>the Beast_ (pages 34-35 and 227-28). I believe Abrams discusses it in
>_Natural Supernaturalism_ and Thompson also refers to Ferber's book
_The
>Social Vision of Wiliam Blake_ and to Stuart Curran's essay "Blake and
His
>Gnostic Style" in _Blake Studies_ vol 4. no. 2 in Spring 1972.
> Good luck,
>
> Rob Anderson
> Oakland University
>
>At 07:10 PM 2/17/1998 EST, you wrote:
>>Hello everyone. My name is Beth and I am brand new around here so
please be
>>kind. I am endeavouring to write a research paper, at Old Dominion
>Univertity
>>in Virginia, on the influence of the Gnostic Gospels, and Blakes
enthusiasm
>>for them, on his work. I would like to focus on the art aspect more
than the
>>writing as it is for an art history course. Of course one can never
fully
>>separate the two in my opinion. The problem is that I can find no
resources
>>for research. If anyone has any Titles for me to look for or sites
where I
>>can find info please let me know. Of course if anyone has a personal
opinion
>>on the matter it is also very welcome. Thank you in advance.
>>
>> Beth Kira5@aol.com
>>
>>
>
>
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Subject: Re: Blake & Gnostic Gospels
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:08:09 -0600 (CST)
From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly)
To: blake@albion.com
Horn says Blake was acquainted with Priestly's accounts of Gnosticism
in his church histories, (especially _A History of the Corruptions of
Chrisitanity_) and cites Curran as indicating the Blake might easily
have encountered expositions of Gnostic thought in Pierre Bayle's
_Dictionary_, Nathaniel Lardner's _History of Heretics_ and
_Credibility of the Gospel History_, and in von Mosheim, Gibbon, and
de Beausobre.
You wrote:
>
>Beth,
>
> To the best of my knowledge Blake's only access to Christian
Gnostic
>texts would have been in English translations (probably) of ancient
orthodox
>Christian texts such as Irenaeus' attacks on the Gnostics. Correct me
if I'm
>wrong. This subject fascinates me, and I fairly recently finished
Elaine
>Pagels book on the Gnostic gospels. Please keep us informed.
>
> Ron Javorcky
>
>
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Subject: calling Pam van Shaik
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:36:09 -0800
From: Bill Franklin
To: blake@albion.com
Pam, are you still listening in? I've got a question or two
coming out of class discussions that I'd sure like to ask you
about, and damned if I can't find your address. I've got this
Jewish woman who thinks she might be seeing mystical Hebrew
things in Blake. Send me a post, would you please. I think I'd
like to introduce y'all and see what the two of you have to say
to one another.
Bill Franklin
(with apologies to the rest of the list, and greetings to old
friends far and wide)
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Subject: Blake and Gnosticism
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 23:02:11
From: Izak Bouwer
To: blake@albion.com
Crabb Robinson tells us:
"On my obtaining from him the declaration that the
Bible was the work of God, I referred to the
commencement of Genesis - "In the beginning God
created the Heaven & the Earth." But I gained
nothing by this, for I was triumphantly told
that this God was not Jehovah, but the Elohim,
& the doctrine of the Gnostics repeated with
sufficient consistency to silence one so un-
learned as myself."
In "Blake and Tradition" Kathleen Raine is of the
opinion that Blake "might have reconstructed for
himself, and imaginatively adopted, a framework of
Gnostic thought from the fragments he came to know
through two screens of detraction, those of their
ancient and modern commentators." (Vol. 2, page 15.)
It is quite interesting to read Raine on the Gnostic
strain in Blake from about page 12 on in Volume Two,
and see how she brings especially The Tyger into the
picture. She refers to paintings of Blake depicting
the Elohim, and also indicates that most Gnostic
systems make mention of the "Seven Angelic architects."
It looks as if one should give attention to paintings
of groups of angels with pointed wings also in this
connection.(For instance, "David delivered out of
many waters," a water colour in the Tate Gallery.)
Gloudina Bouwer
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Subject: Re: calling Pam van Shaik
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:04:51 -0800
From: Ryan Dulkin
To: blake@albion.com
Allow me to but in,
Currently, I am working on my thesis on Blake, Gnosticism, and Biblical
prophecy. I also teach Jewish education and study a wide variety of Jewish
issues, including Jewish mysticism.
Gnosticism and Kabbalah share many common ideologies, though the former is
a more radical rejection of the Biblical G-d and the Creation. Some common
characteristics include: a belief in an underlying reality beyond the
appearance of the world; accounts of a creation before creation, and a
belief in a "primordial" man.
As I continue my studies, I am more and more convinced that Blake's
ideology is intensely Gnostic, while some of the imagery he employs, i.e.,
Albion as "primordial" man, has Kabbalistic overtones. However, I haven't
reached any conclusions on Blake's "Kabbalistic" outlook.
Sincerely,
Ryan Dulkin
San Francisco State University
At 08:36 PM 2/18/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Pam, are you still listening in? I've got a question or two
>coming out of class discussions that I'd sure like to ask you
>about, and damned if I can't find your address. I've got this
>Jewish woman who thinks she might be seeing mystical Hebrew
>things in Blake. Send me a post, would you please. I think I'd
>like to introduce y'all and see what the two of you have to say
>to one another.
>
>Bill Franklin
>
>
>(with apologies to the rest of the list, and greetings to old
>friends far and wide)
>
>
>
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Subject: Re: calling Pam van Shaik -Reply
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:17:37 -0800
From: Ryan Dulkin
To: blake@albion.com
>I have just answered you via Albion.com but none of my replies to the
>online group seem to have been getting through, so am trying to outwit
>so-called Mailer-Daemon by addressing you directly. I agree that there
>are very close resemblances between kabbalah, Gnosticism and Blake.
>Have you seen Sorensen's book publ by Edwin Mellen press ..itself very
>controversial.? Pam
>
Pam,
I have not seen Sorensen's book, but I appreciate the reference. Perhaps
when I have a better handle on the subject, I'll post some more useful
references on this subect.
Sincerely,
Ryan Dulkin
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Subject: fame.
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:51:40 -0000
From: Rachel Paterson
To: "'blake@albion.com'"
Hello there people!
I'm an A-level student in Sussex; England and I am doing English,
Classics, Theatre, and History. The Blake project is actually part of
my History Personal study. The title is basically 'How far did Blake's
views represent those of the society in which he lived'. It counts for
about 20% of my grade, so I'm working quite hard on it at the moment -
it has to be in in April.
We are supposed to speak to experts on the subject we are doing, but as
William Blake was, needless to say, an unusual topic to go for as far as
history is concerned, my tutor had no suggestions about who to contact
for research/opinions. I thought I would give this a go, and then share
my findings.
I wondered if you may be able to point me in the right direction on
something;
It seems that, in general, the poet comes before the revolutionist; the
poets observation preceding the critics action. However, judging by his
poetry, Blake is not a passive observer, but also an objector. This is
where I need your help;
I realise that Blake was an outcast because of his views, and that his
views would now be outdated. However it is particularly notable in some
of his poetry - The little Black boy, for example - that he thought that
Black and white people were equal in the eyes of God. Similarly, he
focuses on the idea that as God made everything and everyone, we should
love all people of all religions - see The divine Image.
I know that there was contemporary opposition as regards to civil rights
and such, and that Blake's objection to slavery may well have stemmed
from such views. However, the general opinion as to why Blake was never
credited for his poetry while he was alive was because he invalidated
all elements of the society in which he lived.
Surely if his poetry supported such issues as civil rights then it would
have been used, and he would have been a front liner to such a movement?
Obviously, his views on equality were way ahead of most of his peers,
but there were liberals who thought slaves should at least be given back
their freedom. If this is the case, then Blake would not have been
considered by the whole of his society - as I have been led to believe -
completely mad.
Is it possible that one of the primary reasons for Blake's failure to
become famous in his time was that he would not mass produce his work?
According to one of the intro's to a copy of In/Exp. that I read (by
Geoffrey Keynes), Blake's philosophy on art made it impossible for him
to mass-produce his paintings and poetry together, and he would not
publish the poetry alone. Thus he would not have been recognised simply
because his poetry was not available to the public.
Am I completely off on a tangent, or whether there is some sense in this
idea? If you think that what I am saying is credible, I will probably
need to get some figures to support the statement, and I would be very
grateful if anyone could suggest where I might get hold of such
statistics?
Thanks for listening! Hope to hear from you soon.
Rachel Paterson.
Rachel@busisoft.co.UK