Blake List — Volume 1997 : Issue 31 Today's Topics: [Fwd: Blake exhibition] removal from list Re: french revolution Re: Thanks for welcoming and reply to matters MSS Re: removal from list Bibliographical query Re: Bibliographical query Human Abstract, Forms Devine Re: Human Abstract, Forms Devine RE: Altizer introduction Eternity Re: Human Abstract, Forms Devine: Calling Thomas Altizer Re: Hi, John. Welcome to the Blake List Human Abstract Eternity -Reply Re: Human Abstract Re: Eternity -Reply ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:54:06 -0600 From: Mark Trevor Smith To: blake@albion.com Subject: [Fwd: Blake exhibition] Message-Id: <3324910E.25B7@nic.smsu.edu> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1CB13B652A66" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1CB13B652A66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am attempting to forward an announcement of an exhibition of Blake's Job at the VA Museum of Fine Arts. If it does not go through, I'll try again. --------------1CB13B652A66 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from vmfa.state.va.us (vmfa.state.va.us [165.176.6.2]) by nic.smsu.edu (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SMTP id QAA109736 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 16:26:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199703102226.QAA109736@nic.smsu.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 17:23:00 -0500 From: Don Dale Subject: Blake exhibition To: "'smtp:mts231f@nic.smsu.edu'" X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sara Ward asked that I pass on the following information to you with the hope that you will post it to all Blake mailing list subscribers. Please let me know if I may provide additional information. Don Dale Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, Richmond VA USA ddale@vmfa.state.va.us http://www.vmfa.state.va.us "Look INTO people as well as AT them." --Leigh W. Rutledge, "A Cat's Little Instruction Book" ========================================================== The Virginia Museum of Fine Arts will present "WILLIAM BLAKE: THE BOOK OF JOB" from November 1, 1997, to January 11, 1998. In 1973, the Virginia Museum purchased a complete set of engraved illustrations of the Book of Job (1825), the most important example of line engraving ever executed by William Blake (1757-1827). Because these are fragile works on paper, they can only be placed on view for brief periods, such as this exhibition. Some 60 drawings, watercolors and engravings will investigate the aesthetic and spiritual implications of the Book of Job in Blake's career. Also on display will be a selection of watercolors (ca. 1805, now in the collection of the Pierpont Morgan Library) commissioned prior to the engravings by Blake's patron, Thomas Butts; the entire set of Blake's preliminary drawings for the engravings (ca. 1823, Fitzwilliam Museum, Cambridge, UK); and, for comparison, a selection from the "New Zealand" set of watercolors (Yale Center for British Art), originally thought to be by Blake but now accepted as copies after his work. ORGANIZER: Virginia Museum of Fine Arts CURATOR: Malcolm Cormack, Paul Mellon Curator ITINERARY: does not travel PUBLICATION: TBD ADMISSION FEES: adults $3; youth & student (13-18); members free. Additional details may be found on our web page at . I would be delighted to receive and respond to any questions your list may have. Thank you for your assistance. Don Dale Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, Richmond VA USA ddale@vmfa.state.va.us http://www.vmfa.state.va.us "Look INTO people as well as AT them." --Leigh W. Rutledge, "A Cat's Little Instruction Book" --------------1CB13B652A66-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:03:49 -0500 (EST) From: kdick@interlynx.net To: blake@albion.com Subject: removal from list Message-Id: <199703110003.TAA23104@boris.interlynx.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please remove me from the list. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:06:27 -0600 From: tomdill@wc.stephens.edu (TOM DILLINGHAM) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: french revolution Message-Id: <97031021062700@wc.stephens.edu> I think the best possible source on Blake's views of the French Revolution is still Erdman's _Prophet Against Empire_, but you can still get some help from Bronowski's Blake and the Age of REvolution. There is also Carl Woodring 's book on the politics of the Romantic poets (I forget the title) and George Rude's _Wilkes and Liberty_ (he doesn't mention Blake, but has good comments on the period); there is also Linda Lewis's _The Promethean Political of Milton, Blake, and Shelley_, and Barton Friedman's _Fabricating History: English Writers on the French Revolution_. Don't forget E.P. Thompson, in general, and Jon Mee's _Dangerous Enthusiasm_ and Michael Ferber's _Social Vision of William Blake_. There are some recent titles as well, but they slip my ind. These have probably already been mentioned to you, but I have been away for a few days and am therefore behind on the "list." Best of luck, Tom Dillingham ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:27:14 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNTAHOE@aol.com To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Thanks for welcoming and reply to matters MSS Message-Id: <970310222528_-869653517@emout14.mail.aol.com> Dear Susan; I'm sorry, I am no scholar nor rare manuscript collector. I possess only one volume of any interest, and that is "Blake's Illustrations to the Divine Comedy" by Albert S. Roe, Princeton University Press, 1953; L.C. Card 52-13167. As I mentioned in my introduction, I studied with Franklin Pearce, a Blake Scholar who used to teach at U.C. Santa Barbara. I can only refer you to his name alone. Frankly, I do not even know if he is still alive. It's been 23 years, and at the time he was in his fifties. He was an absolute clearing house on Blake. He would be a treasure if you could find him. A very eccentric man to be sure...... I'm very happy with the level of knowledge and quality of communication I have experienced so far with the Blake cyberspace. Regards, John Gorrindo San Rafael, CA. JOHNTAHOE@aol.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 22:30:05 -0500 From: tyler Miskowski To: blake@albion.com Subject: Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970310223004.006b8eb0@pop.mail.nmu.edu> Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Greetings fellow Blakeans; I have recently joined your estute list, and am pleased with the topics that have been in motion. As it is right now, I am not able to add to the topics of discussion. However, I would like to see if anyone can aid in the interpretation of one of my favorite poems, The Human Abstract. I have been reading the poem for a couple of years and keep discovering new personal interpretations. I have gone to the stacks for helpful insight, but choose to reach out for some new insight. Anyone interested? The sixth, and final, stanza brings about some curiosity among my colleagues and myself. There are many visualizations throughout the poem. The final stanza brings the "Gods of earth and sea" into the picture. My interpretation keeps on changing as to the relevance of the vain search of the Gods. Is the search in vain for the Gods because the tree only exists in the human mind? Or could it be because the Gods have no mind? I am bumbling around this one right now and could use some helpful insight. Cordially, TJM P.S. I am printing a copy of the poem so we don't have to go looking for it if we do not have it. The Human Abstract Pity would be no more, If we did not make somebody Poor: And Mercy no more could be, If all were as happy as we; And mutual fear brings peace; Till the selfish loves increase. Then Cruelty knits a snare, And spreads his baits with care. He sits down with holy fears, And waters the ground with tears; Then Humility takes its root Underneath his foot. Soon spreads the dismal shade Of Mystery over his head; And the Catterpiller and Fly, Feed on the Mystery. And it bears the fruit of Deceit, Ruddy and sweet to eat; And the Raven his nest has made It its thickest shade. The Gods of the earth and sea, Sought thro' Nature to find this Tree but their search was all in vain: There grows one in the Human Brain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 22:45:19 CST From: MTS231F@vma.smsu.edu To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: removal from list Message-Id: <9703110447.AA14040@uu6.psi.com> To leave Blake Online, send your message to blake-request@albion.com. No body in the message is necessary, but on the subject line put unsubscribe On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:03:49 -0500 (EST) said: >Please remove me from the list. > >Thank you. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:36:13 GMT From: jlord@ull.ac.uk To: blake@albion.com Subject: Bibliographical query Message-Id: <97031109361252@ull.ac.uk> Hello to Susan Reilly and all on the Blake list - first, the University of London Library, in Senate House, has a few interesting Blake items, but nothhing of any great rarity - we have originals of the _Job_ and the _Dante_ etchings (I Think these are noted by Bentley in _Blake Books_), but - alas - no manuscripts or illuminated books. Though we do have a very nice collection of very nearly all the Trianon Press facsimiles, and about six years ago, I organized a little exhihibition of these at the Library. Secondly - re the enquiry about the printing of copies of Blake's works - I was very puzzled by the statement that he printed about a hundred copies or so of each work, because I had never heard such a figure quoted before. I do have copies of the Keynes _Census_ and of _Blake Books_, and am fairly familiar with them on the enumeration (should that be aphabetization??) of the Illuminated Books, and of course no title comes anywhere near 100 copies. Iused to accept the wisdom that WB printed copies as and when he had a customer, and his letters are a very interesting source here, showing how his prices increased, as much as anything! But Viscomi's groundbreaking study casts a lot of doubt on all this. Whether one agrees with him or not, he has certainly turned the chronology of WB's Illuminated Books upside down, and as the reviewer in _Blake_ said, all future discussions will be along the lines that Viscomi has drawn out (I paraphrase). In his book, he sets out an Appendix whichgives his clear chronology of the printings of the various copies, and he argues in the text that WB printed small editions, rather than one-off copies. As regards WB registering his copies at Stationers' Hall, I must say that I have never checked the records, but living under the shadow of censorship as he did, he was certainly aware of the requirement to give his name and address to the plates he printed from (hence the occasional "Printed as the Act directs by William Blake, South Molton Street" or something similar). Sorry to be so prlix, but hope that this helpful. John Lord ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 07:17:50 -0600 (CST) From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Bibliographical query Message-Id: <199703111317.HAA06838@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Thanks, John, for an interesting & informative post. I really do need to see the Keynes bibliography and read Viscomi's study. I hope you followed the postings re: the number of Blake's prints, reprints, & editions to the end, where, hopefully, it was resolved for the nonce. I do wonder whether (and am probably showing my lack of expertise here) the whole business of the private-printing really did have some connection to Blake's writings being (potentially) viewed as seditious (especially after the incident with the Royal Dragoons). This may have been taken up in some study or other, but it is not often cited as an explanation of why B on the whole preferred to print in small numbers etc. etc. Certainly the political climate in England was repressive and the fear of revolution in England had generated a system of international & domestic espionage (remember Spy Nozy?) and dictated, no doubt, a crack-down on any action seen as even remotely treasonous. Any thoughts out there, or has anyone seen this issue discussed? S. Reilly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 08:44:26 -0600 (CST) From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Human Abstract, Forms Devine Message-Id: <199703111444.IAA04953@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > > > > I would like to see if anyone can aid in >the interpretation of one of my favorite poems, The Human >Abstract. > > >The sixth, and final, stanza brings about some curiosity among my >colleagues and myself. There are many visualizations throughout the poem. The final stanza brings the "Gods of earth and sea" into the picture. My interpretation keeps on changing as to the relevance of the vain search of the Gods. > >Is the search in vain for the Gods because the tree only exists in the >human mind? Or could it be because the Gods have no mind? > > Dear Tyler: Just to offer a quick reply, I would say that both of your interpretations could figure in to a reading of this poem; that is, the Tree (generally taken to represent the knowledge of good & evil) DOES exist only in the human mind, insofar as good and evil are, for Blake, human constructions, made necessary by the evils of society and man's inhumanity to man (we'd have no need for pity & mercy in a perfect world free of oppression). Yet I guess this ultimately gets you back to Blake's rather Jacobin Jesus-- a reformer who had to come and set the fallen world straight---he preached these virtues because there is no hope of a prelapsarian state on earth, only a more Utopian-like society. Along with that man created gods and systems of religion to, in effect, uphold or compensate for (depending on how you want to look at it) the corrupt systems he put in place--it's not so much that the gods have no mind but that they are products of the HUMAN mind. If this is not too simplistic, I apologize. Much more sophisticated views of this subject have been offered by critics who argue that Protestantism itself was put in place, set into motion, to enforce a system of rights and wrongs in order that the state might have control over punishing man's transgressions. S. Reilly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:50:43 EST From: Tyler Miskowski To: Subject: Re: Human Abstract, Forms Devine Message-Id: <11MAR97.14952986.0058.MUSIC@NMU.EDU> Dear S Reilly; Thank you for your input. The insight was helpful. However, the problem I have with that interpretation, as I have pondered it before, is that it seems that Blake would not suggest that the God would have no mind. Since "Gods" is capatilized it appears to be the Christian God isn't it? If it refers to pagan "gods" it would be totally different. This latter interpretation seems more plausible. Another question that this brings to mind is about the "Gods intent. Are they yearning to be mortal? If the "Gods" are pagan, and created by mancould it be that they are trying to control that which controls them. After all, if the "Gods" are created by man's mind, then man has dominion over the fate of them. Perhaps the "Gods" seek to find that power that created them. In this case it is a futal atempt because it is man's folly that they even exist. There are, as I have said, many visualizations that come forth throughou t this poem. The overwhelming presence of the Garden of Eden is apparent. Thank you for your response, and I look forward to hearing from you again. TJM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 01:15:17 UT From: "tHOMAS aLTIZER" To: blake@albion.com Subject: RE: Altizer introduction Message-Id: Mr. Dumain, I have learned from a librarian that my Blake book is apparently out of print so you seem to be right. But the MSU Press never so informed me nor did they give me the opportunity to buy remaining copies. Perhaps there were none. But if you don't have my Gospel of christian Atheism (which is a Blakean theology of sorts) I can send you that. Tom Altizer ---------- From: Ralph Dumain Sent: Thursday, March 06, 1997 10:58 PM To: blake@albion.com Subject: RE: Altizer introduction I shall have to double-check, but I get conflicting reports from differnt dataabses. Some book dealers databases's list the book in print, the last Books in Print database I consulted listed the book as out of print. I guess I shall have to contact the press directly, but I am skeptical as to whether the book is still inprint. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 18:00:43 -0500 (EST) From: bouwer To: blake@albion.com Subject: Eternity Message-Id: <199703112300.SAA05120@host.ott.igs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Philip Benz, whether we should always think of Eternity as "off the page", is a moot point. But in the Concordance there are roughly a little over two hundred entries for "Eternity" alone, and between four and five hundred entries for derivative words like "eternal" etc. I am very uneasy when the subject of mortal death is brought into the discussion of Blake's view of Eternity. (Pam van Schaik for instance talks about things that can only happen "after we die." Philip talks about "the gate of death.") I feel deeply con- vinced that if one makes the here-after (whatever that means) an element in one's understanding of Blake's conception of eternity, you are starting to miss his point. I really like it when Jeffrey Skoblow quotes Kafka who says that "the expulsion from paradise is final, and life in this world is irrevocable, but the eternal nature of the occurence makes it nevertheless possible that we not only could live continuously in paradise, but that we are continuously there in actual fact, no matter whether we know it or not." Blake's urgent mission, for me, is to make us realise that the doors of perception must be cleansed, that we must not let ourselves fall prey to the domination of the Natural, but let the Spiritual become dominant in us. Then our concept of reality is bound to change, and with fourfold vision we may realise that we are all part of the Divine Humanity, our presence not destroyed because of our mortal death. So also will Golgonooza, after our individual mortal deaths,continue to contain all that was engendered by us, and would become accessible to other mortals even after we are gone. Is that not the message of "Seek ye first the Kingdom, and the rest will be added unto you?" Gloudina Bouwer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 17:35:40 -0600 (CST) From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Human Abstract, Forms Devine: Calling Thomas Altizer Message-Id: <199703112335.RAA20822@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> Dear Tyler, I am certainly no expert on the poem, but I think the source of some of your difficulty with it may be that you are bringing (forgive me) your own preconceived notions of God to the poem. Isn't it possible (even for a Christian) to believe that "God" and gods are both products of the human mind? The poem seems at the very least to suggest that the notions of good and evil (even if not of "God" himself) are man-created, and have little to do (nor does the Christian God) with Blake's idea of an eternal, transcendent, perfected state. This is not to beg the question of the uncaused causer; it is simply to say that man brings his own weaknesses and preconceptions, limitations, etc. to any notion of God, and that he sets up and keeps in place systems which support those notions. I can't quite see how you arrive at the reading that "the God ...[has] no mind," but I like your point about futility vis-a-vis man-created gods. Hmmmmm...... I think that by retaining the capital letter "G" yet pluralizing, Blake may be extending the concept of "God" to include ALL gods, even the Christian one (but I must be careful--Blake's punctuation is notoriously unreliable). I really think Thamas Altizer is the one who ought to jump in here, as I am offering but a quickly-sketched and not-very-fully-substantiated reading of the poem; and I suspect that Mr. Altizer has devoted much time and thought to these matters. Susan Reilly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 20:57:13 -0500 (EST) From: JohnPEgan@aol.com To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Hi, John. Welcome to the Blake List Message-Id: <970311205620_1748112045@emout01.mail.aol.com> Hi Susan; Yes, I've been following your discussions, but unfortunately have nothing to add. We don't have any rare Blake stuff in our library, although It's rare when I find what I'm looking for on Blake. For instance: one copy of Damon's Blake Dictionary. You could start a riot walking out of the library with that in plain view! Luckily, I've purchased a copy of my own. Like many schools we've been ambushed with budget cuts, and English departments always seem to feel the first blow. Thanks for responding; I've enjoyed this list and your contributions, as well. All the best. John Egan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:44:50 -0500 From: tyler Miskowski To: blake@albion.com Subject: Human Abstract Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970311224449.006b79ec@pop.mail.nmu.edu> Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Dear Susan; Once again you make a great point. I get the feeling that I am tripping over my own words and not communicating. I feel that the Gods are man made, they may have a mind, and conform to both paganistic as well as Christian beliefs. The idea about their minds being absent was not meant to be taken as I feel I may have projected. However, I think that the man made Gods' minds lack the experience that the men who have created them have. The Gods appear to be searching for the mortal elements of mankind while being somewhat if not entirely divine. Their search is in vain as they are incapable of being mortal. In the "Songs of Innocence and Experience" there is a poem entitled The Divine Image which rivals the Human Image. The prior being subtitled "Innocence" while the latter is subtitled "Experience". The title The Human Image I believe was the title of the first draft of the poem, including six more lines. I am trying to find this to add some insight on the subject. There may be something in those extra lines that could shed some light on the matter. Anyway, I am new to the list game, and do not wish to waste your time if you do not wish to discuss this. I got the feeling that you have grown weary of this subject. If so, let me know and I will stop beating a dead horse. I find the outside insight to be intriguing. TJM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:35:28 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com Subject: Eternity -Reply Message-Id: Gloudina, Please do not misrepresnet what I was saying re ETernity. The Auguries of Innocence clearly indicate that there are moments which escape `Satan's Watchfiends' here on earth and that we can find `Eternity' via the doors of cleansed perception. However, fully and sustainedly to realise our divine humanity is not possible in the flesh, as Blake intimates in `To Tirzah'. To speak of a pre- or post-lapsarian state does NOT exclude at any point Blake's perception that every particle of existence is holy and that eternity is never extinguished at the centre of all things ... as I tried to point out in discussing his imagery of the scattered sparks of divine light which are enclosed in the husks of matter. Every time I mention an existence other than life on this earth as being important someone out there jumps to the false conclusion that I must therefore, ipse facto, not give the world of reality its due. .. but what I think is irrelevant. Does Blake himselfnot clearly indicate that the full flowering of the Tree of Life only can happen when man is fully expanded into God's light and freed from the obscuring `cloud' of his body? This image is clear even in the Songs, in `The little Black Boy'. Pam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 06:27:06 -0600 (CST) From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Human Abstract Message-Id: <199703121227.GAA04156@dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> Not weary at all; just hoping Mr. Altizer & others will climb on to the discussion train with some input. Johnson & Grant note in their edition of the Poetry that "The Divine Image" (the one that begins : "cruelty has a Human Heart") was etched earlier as a contrary poem for "The Divine Image" of _Innocence_ ("To Mercy Pity Peace & Love"). Keynes prints "The human Image" (sic): [I hope I'm not violating copyright laws!] Pity [_written over_ Mercy] could be no more, [If there was nobody poor [_del_.] If we did not make somebody poor; And Mercy no more could be, If all were as happy as we. And mutual fear brings Peace, Till the selfish Loves increase; Then Cruelty knits a snare, And spreads his [nets _del.] baits with care. He sits down with holy fears And waters the ground with tears; Then humility takes its root Underneath his foot. Soon spreads the dismal shade Of Mystery over his head; And the catterpiller & fly Feed on the Mystery. And it bears the fruit of deceit Ruddy & sweet to eat; And the raven his nest has made In its thickest shade. The Gods of the Earth & Sea Sought thro' nature to find this tree; But their search was all in vain: [Till they sought in the human brain. _del._] There grows one in the human brain. They said this mystery never shall cease; The priest [loves _del._] promotes war & the soldier peace. There souls of men are bought & sold, And [cradled _del._] milk fed infancy [is sold _del.] for gold; And youths to slaughter houses led, And [maidens _del.] beauty for a bit of bread. (see what I mean about sedition?) SR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 08:17:23 -0600 (CST) From: lawesl@neosoft.com To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Eternity -Reply Message-Id: <199703121417.IAA28196@mailbox.neosoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Gloudina, Please do not misrepresnet what I was saying re ETernity. >The Auguries of Innocence clearly indicate that there are moments which >escape `Satan's Watchfiends' here on earth and that we can find >`Eternity' via the doors of cleansed perception. However, fully and >sustainedly to realise our divine humanity is not possible in the flesh, as >Blake intimates in `To Tirzah'. To speak of a pre- or post-lapsarian state >does NOT exclude at any point Blake's perception that every particle of >existence is holy and that eternity is never extinguished at the centre of >all things ... as I tried to point out in discussing his imagery of the >scattered sparks of divine light which are enclosed in the husks of >matter. Every time I mention an existence other than life on this earth as >being important someone out there jumps to the false conclusion that I >must therefore, ipse facto, not give the world of reality its due. .. but >what I think is irrelevant. Does Blake himselfnot clearly indicate that . >Pam > Just a lurker checking in. Pam and Gloudina, your points are very clear. My idea of Blake is that his life and works were about " the full flowering of the Tree of Life only can happen when man is fully expanded into God's light and freed from the obscuring `cloud' of his body..." as a process to strive for in what ever state one wakes up and finds herself in. I have really enjoyed the recent dialogue between you. Lawrence Lawes (hoping one day to put some of Blake's work to music, to discover the music he has already written) Lawrence Lawes Board Certified Social Worker Critical Incident Responder MAJOR, USAFR, BSC 912 East Lexington Avenue Terrytown, LA 70056-4543 (504) 392-4046 DSN 678-3680 -------------------------------- End of blake-d Digest V1997 Issue #31 *************************************