blake-d Digest				Volume 1996 : Issue 96

Today's Topics:

	 Re: Blake to Whitman connection?

	 Re: Blake to Whitman connection?

	 Re: Blake to Whitman connection?

	 Cain and J35

	 Re: More Keys to Jerusalem

	 Re:Re: Unidentified subject!

	 Re: Cain and J35

	 RE: Cain and J35

	  2 more points on *J*38[43] -Reply

	  Re: More Keys to Jerusalem -Reply

	  blake on stage -Reply

	  _MHH_ and Taste -Reply


	  Re: Divisions of Blake -Reply

	 re: 2 more points on *J*38[43] -Reply

	 re: 2 more points on *J*38[43] -Reply -Reply/  LOS< JESUS

	  Joseph of Arimathea -Reply

	 Streaming Blake's Urizen

	 Eternity and Blakean Evolution

	      Re: Eternity and Blakean Evolution

	   Re: Eternity and Blakean Evolution

	   Re: Eternity and Blakean Evolution


Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 15:20:59 -0500



Subject: Re: Blake to Whitman connection?

Message-Id: <>

Justin Kaplan tells us Whitman "ordered the construction of his tomb,

'a plain massive stone temple' of unpolished Quincy granite.  He 

designed it himself, with one of William Blake's symbolic etchings,

'Death's Door' in mind." (_Walt Whitman: A Life_ 49)  On pages

326-327 of the same biography, Kaplan describes Swinburne's 

essay and its comparisons of Blake and Whitman: "The 'points of

contact and sides of likeness,' Swinburne said, were 'so many and

so grave, as to afford some ground of reason to those who preach the

transition of souls.' John Swinton was so captivated by the 

resemblances that he claimed he was able to pass off lines from Blake

as coming from _Leaves of Grass_--this was not hard to do with 

Blake's 'Energy is the only life, and is from the Body . . . Energy

is Eternal Delight.' Swinton 'asked me pointedly whether I had not

met with Blake's productions in my youth,' Whitman reported. 'Quiote

funny, isn't it?'  He rejected but could not escape the connection

and found his poems being cross-promoted with two other titles on

Hotten's list, Swinburne's study of Blake and a color facsimile of

_The Marriage of Heaven and Hell_."  In a note, Kaplan quotes 

Whitman's own effort to distance himself both from claims of

similarity and of influence; Whitman considers himself relatively

sane by comparison, but "the sole exmaple of any direct 'influence

' is the design of Whitman's tomb which, according to Anne Gilchrist's

daughter Grace, he adapted from a Blake engraving."

Apparently both Swinburne and D.G. Rossetti saw affinities between

Blake and Whitman, as did the Gilchrist circle (Mrs. Gilchrist

corresponded with Whitman and considered him a prophet like

Blake.)  Allen Ginsbert has closely associated the poets in

our own time (Ginsberg, sorry), and he is not alone.  But 

Kaplan discounts the notion of any direct influence, since 

Whitman seems not to have known Blake's works until he was

well into his own career.

Paul Zweig (in _Walt Whitman: The Making of the Poet_) makes 

somewhat more of the connections, but only by way of parallelisms,

connecting Blake and Whitman because of somewhat similar attitudes

toward sexuality, toward the role of the prophetic poet, and toward

the actual practice of poetry.  The superficial similarity on the

page of the long lines of both poets (and for that matter, of

Christopher Smart--though his Jubilate was unread at that time)

might suggest common prosodic ideas and Zweig explores that 



Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 16:44:27 -0500

From: (J. Michael)


Subject: Re: Blake to Whitman connection?

Message-Id: <>

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Thanks, Tom Dillingham, for some concrete data on Blake's influence on

Whitman.  I've always been struck by the similarity in the way both poets

celebrate the body, although, as my American poetry professor once put it,

"I don't think Blake ever got around to extolling armpits."  To get back to

my favorite topic, the city, "Crossing Brooklyn Ferry" embraces the crowd

(almsot literally!) and celebrates the city's spiritual potential in a way

that's much more Blakean than Wordsworthian.  (It also undermines the false

dichotomy between nature and the city

Jennifer Michael


Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 18:57:24 -0500



Subject: Re: Blake to Whitman connection?

Message-Id: <>

One more small note:  In a very late (1890) letter. Whitman writes "Did

I tell you that a monument designer, Phila: has bro't me a design

for the Cemetary vault (do you remember Blake's 'Death'?)"

The assumption is that he refers to "Death's Door," which exists

in several versions, most familiarly in the sequence illustrationg

Blair's _The Grave_.  (The quotation is from vol. 5 of the 

NYU Press edition of Whitman's correspondence.)


Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 19:29:32 -0500



Subject: Cain and J35

Message-Id: <>

I should have been more specific about the suggestion of Cain as the

"first flee-er" in Darlene's phrase.  We know that Blake was very

interested in the figure of Cain, not only because he wrote "The

Ghost of Abel" in response to Lord Byron's _Cain_ but because he

worked for many years on visual representations of Cain and Abel

culminating in the great painting of "Adam and Eve Discovering

the Body of Abel" which almost precisely illustrates the 

scene description at the beginning of "Ghost of Abel."  Plate

15 {14} of Blake's _Milton_ shows the dead body of Abel beside

the sacrificial altar, with Cain reaching toward flight.

This is significant, because an answer to "Whither fleest thou""

may be found on that plate.  

	And Milton said, I go to Eternal Death! The Nations will

	Follow after the detestable Gods of Priam; in pomp

	of warlike selfhood, contradicting and blaspheming.

	When will the Resurrection come; to deliver the sleeping body

	From corruptibility; O when Lord Jesus wilth thou come?

	Tarry no longer; for my soul lies at the gates of death.

In _Jerusalem)

	Los was the friend of Albion who most loved him.  In Cambridgeshire

	His eternal station, he is the twenty-eighth, & is four-fold.

	Seeing Albion had turn'd his back against the Divine Vision,

	Los said to Albion. Whither fleest thou?  Albion replyd,


	I die! I go to Eternal Death! the shades of death

        Hover within me & beneath, and spreading themselves outside

	Like rocky clouds, build me a gloomy monument of woe:

	Will none accompany me in my death? or be a Ransom for me

        In that dark Valley? I have girded round my cloke, an don my



	Bound these black shoes of death, & on my hands, deaths iron gloves:

	God hath forsaken me, & my friends are become a burden

	A weariness to me, & the human footstep is a terror to me.

It is not merely that the phrase "I go to eternal Death" repeats

here, but that the complex ironies involved in putting off

selfhood and entering into death in order to overcome it are

tied to the problems explored in "Ghost of Abel" and related

to what it may be that [Cain] must do to escape the "life for a life"

vengeance for his act.  

Los asks

	Must the Wise die for an Atonement? does Mercy endure Atonement

	No! It is Moral Severity, & destroys Mercy in its Victim.

	So speaking not yet infected with the Error & Illusion

I don't mean to argue that the question "Whither fleest thou""

is meant to evoke *only* Cain (for one thing, Cain and Judas are

linked typologically, I think, though I don't have the relevant

texts handy to check on that), but that as is often the case,

such moments bring together multiple associations; I think Jonah

is possibly relevant (and "my friends are become a burden" would

even justify folding in Job, though probably it evokes the

guilt we might associate with Cain or Judas).  It is also 

necessary to analyze more  carefully the interesting and complex

relationships between Milton 15[14] and Jerusalem 35 [39] since

only the full context would justify conclusions or identifications

I have suggested.


Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 21:15:23 -0700

From: "Charlie K." 


Subject: Re: More Keys to Jerusalem

Message-Id: <>

Randall Albright wrote:

> Now what does THAT mean, you might think, wandering through the

> multi-layered forests of "Jerusalem"? Well, for me, more

> comfortable in the "Marriage of Heaven and Hell" era, it means

> letting things all hang out, warts and all. 

I've been skimming (not really reading) all these different

interpretations of Jerusalem and I thought I'd add my $.02.

Jerusalem & The Marriage are two of my favorite Blake poems to read.

I think they are two good examples to use when contrasting younger

Blake with older Blake.  The Marriage, like Jerusalem, is an epic

poem, but, unlike Jerusalem, it is also a sort of academic rebuttal

to Swedenborg.  At the time it was written, Blake was still thinking

about other current ideas of the time, building upon them, and

improving them in his own way.  Some of The Marriage is presented in

a logical manner, such as an argument to illustrate a point.

Jerusalem, on the other hand, I see as more of a pure visionary

*catharsis*.  Nothing academic about it.  Blake had some deep stuff

on his mind, the eternal stuff, and I imagine that it all would get

to the point where he would just let it pour down onto the paper.

The overheated brain.  He would get the torments, struggles and

trembling down on paper as a means not only to create art, but to

feel the emotional release that catharsis brings.  And his command

of the language was so powerful that he could get all that emotion

effectively down into words.  In fact, he was so good at this that

one may experience a sort of catharsis of their own simply from

reading the words.  And if you think about it, it's all in there in

Jerusalem. Death, birth, life, sadness, the difference between the

sexes, God, eternity, etc.  The big stuff. True religious writing.

The kind of things some people are uncomfortable even considering.

Blake thought about them a lot.

So I don't look for meaning or a story line when I read Jerusalem.

The interaction of the characters is a symbolic way to show the

interaction of different aspects of humanness.  As if Blake was

playing with the archetypes and writing stories about them... in

eternity.  Not very grounded in logic at all.  Logic doesn't have

much of a place in visionary inspiration.  Either does time.

And of course some of the politics and philosophy of the day is

thrown in there too.  Blake was sort of the counterforce at a time

when logic and rationality were being cultivated and rewarded almost

universally among the "thinkers."  He used them in The Marriage to

help make his point, but by the time he got to writing Jerusalem he

had all but abandoned them in favor of furthering his own visionary


One thing that does puzzle me are the two different attitudes Blake

displays about science.  In The Marriage he speaks of science in a

negative tone, while in his later works he links science with art and

speaks about them together most positively, as if they stood as the

highest Human achievements.  Did Blake's feeling about science &

experimentation change as he got older, and if so what prompted the


And does anybody know anything about Blake's actual visionary

experiences?  How did Blake achieve ecstasy?

Of course I may be over-simplifying, but I always tend to do that.


(a person not accustomed to writing about literature)

"All things Begin & End in Albions Ancient Druid Rocky Shore."


Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 02:03:04 -0500 (CDT)

From: Darlene Sybert 


Subject: Re:Re: Unidentified subject!


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On Sat, 27 Jul 1996 wrote:

> What is coherence, Darlene, and who has it?  He that died a'Thursday.  -to

> paraphrase Sir John.- In the work-a-day world, coherence usually starts at

> about $13.85 an hour, with a four hour minimum.  But as almost no one is

> coherent for more than an hour, the actual cost is closer to $50.00 an hour.

	Apparently I said something about coherence...but I'm sorry

	I forgot what it was...

Darlene Sybert 

University of Missouri at Columbia   (English)


The world is so full of a number of things

I'm sure we should all be as happy as kings..  -RLS



Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 02:32:03 -0500 (CDT)

From: Darlene Sybert 


Subject: Re: Cain and J35


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Thanks for expanding on Cain, Tom...and I apologize for my quip... I 

thought you were just being witty so I didn't even take time to 

consider a serious connection.  I thought your explication made sense...and 

I'll keep it in mind while reviewing the next couple weeks--Blake and 

Byron both.> > 

Darlene Sybert 

University of Missouri at Columbia   (English)


This return to the world...can take place only if woman is released from

the archaic projections man lays upon her and if an autonomous and positive

representation of female sexuality exists in the culture.   -Irigaray 17



Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 06:00:02 -0500 (CDT)



Subject: RE: Cain and J35

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Good stuff, Tom



Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:14:12 +0200

From: P Van Schaik 


Subject:  2 more points on *J*38[43] -Reply


Dear Paul,  In this case, I don't think Los is in error to urge the Eternals to

try to save Albion from falling ever further into the delusions of the

SElfhood.  Blake describes, elsewhere, how Africa once fell into a

potentially fatal  `Sleep'  and how he was recovered from this alluring

descent into the state of Experience by divine mercy.  Help comes too

late for Albion, so he descends into the Selfhood and all that once was

within his bosom is given permanent form in the abyss.  Blake's point is

that all Eternals have the freedom to contract into their Selfhoods and to

fall into the deadly `Sleep' of the Soul represented by that of Albion. 

However, God is merciful and tries to prevent the `Sleep' from becoming

dangerous to the sleeping soul , or Eternal.  Thus, I see the passages in

line with Blake's compassionate exploration of the relationship between

God and man  - not as an isolated example of irony.  Albion, overcome by

delusions, of course resists those who would help him back to sanity

and the mental health of Innocence.  Thel,  unlike Albion, listens to those

who would help her and is thus safely restored to the Vales of Bliss

instead of falling into Experience.  Ironically, however, the critics

generally present her as weak in refusing to take on the challenges of

mortal existence and the woes of fleshly love.  Pam van Schaik 


Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:32:34 +0200

From: P Van Schaik 


Subject:  Re: More Keys to Jerusalem -Reply


Dear Charlie, For someone not used to writing about literature, I think

your instincts are very sound.  I liked what you said very much and

would like to add that , in addition to all the spirituality in Blake which you

rightly perceive, there is the bonus of a story-line as the visionary

vignettes he provides us with all evoke the Fall of man in a sequential,

cyclical narrative form. They simulataneously try to expalin how a good

God could have created a fallen world.  Pam


Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 09:23:17 +0200

From: P Van Schaik 


Subject:  blake on stage -Reply


Re your query about a Blake play set in Blake's garden.  I saw, about 12

years ago, a play at the Wardour Warehouse in London which opened

with a nude Blake sitting in a tree in his garden.  It was philosophical as

Thomas Paine and his ideas figured quite largely in it.  I can't remember its

title. . but the Blake Society in London would know of this.  Pam van



Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 12:08:24 +0200

From: P Van Schaik 


Subject:  _MHH_ and Taste -Reply



"The cistern contains: the fountain overflows

One thought. fills immensity.

Always be ready to speak your mind, and a base man will avoid you."

Randall asks:

Why DO children have a Disneyland-like fun ride on a serpent in "Thel"

and "America"? Are they just... being TAKEN for a ride? 

I think that they're portrayed as having a happy ride - for a change -

because all things will ultimately revert to being divinely human.  As in the

Lyca poem, even the Devourers of this world can become

compassionate and cry tears of `gold' because, when they recover their

particpation in the divine humanity, they simultaneously recover the

capacity ot be merciful.

Randall asks:  Where's the path that the argument is talking about?

Climbing up or down a tree constitutes a path? 

In Kabbalah, the radiances of the Tree of Life are joined by shining

`paths' so, yes, the `tree' has `paths'  - and so, I believe, does tha brain

since neural paths are laid down by our choices and actions - some

becoming virtual highways and others, the path `less-travelled'.  Pam


Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 12:36:23 +0200

From: P Van Schaik 




Yes,Ralph, I'll witness to the truth of all that you say in this posting.  Cant

and jargon and all the protean forms of political correctness that lead to

the next stonified strata of society and new mental chains do need to be

challenged and in doing so, I think you continue a mental struggle which

Blake would have applauded.   Pam


Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 12:52:22 +0200

From: P Van Schaik 


Subject:  Re: Divisions of Blake -Reply


Just a very brief comment before leaving work on what you said re the

Prolific and Devourer.   Blake, I think,  always equates  the Devourer with

characters such as the Worm in the Rose, the Tiger in the Forests of the

Night and all who endorse Urizenic thinking - that is, denying the divine

vision of selfless love  - which, of course, includes  hypocrites of all

types, even in the Priesthood.   The Prolific I think Blake sees as all those

who continually fight against those who murder (`devour') the truth

about man's divine origins and the abundant mercy of a loving God.   Pam


Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 05:59:24 -0500 (CDT)



Subject: re: 2 more points on *J*38[43] -Reply

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Thanks for the comments, Pam.  Basically I agree with you that Los is not in 

error to urge the Friends of Albion to try to save Albion, and I also agree

that this is not some isolated moment of irony, but part of Blake's 

exploration of the divine/human relationship.  But part of that relationship

is in the incongruity between what seems best to Los (or other characters) 

and what the Divine Will feels obliged to do.  Several times in *Jerusalem*

Jesus tells different characters that he must do things with which they 

disagree; for example, at one point he tells Jerusalem (I think) that even

Vala and Luvah must be redeemed because "I cannot leave them in the gnawing

grave" (quoted from memory).

Also, I'm not convinced that going back into Innocence is the answer for Blake,

certainly not for later Blake.  It is much more a matter of going *through*

the fiery furnace.  I have argued elsewhere that issue is not one of 

organizing Innocence but of organizing Experience.

Paul Yoder


Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 08:56:39 +0200

From: P Van Schaik 


Subject: re: 2 more points on *J*38[43] -Reply -Reply/  LOS< JESUS


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Dear Paul, I'm glad you raise the points you do because  they present

problems in interpretation which I have tried to wrestle with in my own

work.  As I read  the longer poems, the only time that Los is out of tune

with the divine will is when he becomes subject to Urizenic delusion

(becoming what he beholds, so that his own spectre of Selfhood rises

against him). Because Los succeeds in subduing his Spectre, he is able

to  gather the scattered divine sparks and so help Albion recover his

integrity or wholesome fullness within the divine will.  Because he

gathers the scattered divine light of Albion in his Furnaces, he can

restore some of the beauty -even in the fallen world - of Albion. 

However, only Jesus, by casting himself into the Furnaces of Affliction

of mortal life can, by his perfect example of selflessness, set the

example in human (rather than archetypal) terms which - if mortals

imitate - can redeem them from the state of Error in which they live in

their Selfhoods.

Jesus, of course, must redeem all of those who once lived in harmony

within Albion's bosom in Eternity. He knows that sin is not what Urizen

sees as sin and that those engrossed in the Selfhood on earth are simply

in a state of Error which must be cast off like a rotten garment.  Naturally,

though, those who have assumed these rotten garments of mortal flesh

are afraid to cast them off, equating these with death.  Thus, both Los

and Jesus can be seen as fulfilling the divine will which allows for

expansion into the divine bosom and its contrary - contracting into Error.

But the divine will , in mercy and pity, sets a limit to the Fall because if

such a `limit' were not set, the result would be that the divine sparks of

Albion would dissipate into the dark abyss, there becoming more and

more `disorganiz'd' so that Albion would atomise into  Eternal Death. The

contrary of this is the Organization of light into its original form in Eden.  I

therefore see no reason to postulate an early Blake and later Blake

which, in my opinion, only adds fuel to those who regard Blake as

schizoid.    Whle his earlier poems do have a pastoral touch reminiscent

of Spencer and the `Ginat' forms of his epic are only deveoped in his

longer , later poems, I see coherence of vision throughout BLake in the

sense that he consistently champions that which is Christ-like within us

and urges us to cast out all that is not-human, in the fullest sense of the

word.    Pam


Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:11:49 +0200

From: P Van Schaik 


Subject:  Joseph of Arimathea -Reply


Dear Jennifer,  I think you are right about Jesus accompanying Joseph of

Arimathea..  I heard something similar when I was recently in

Glastonbury.  Also, there is, indeed, a close connection between the

Lamb of God and Jerusalem because in Innocence they are `one' in will

and intellect -as are all the other masculine and feminine spirits. 

Jerusalem is the `Bride' and `Emanation' of the Lamb and sometimes

appears like a cloud of light enfolding Him like a garment, and sometimes

as a lovely, rainbow winged female, and sometimes as the holy city on

Mount Zion.  Similarly, all the other emantions are protean in character

and vary their appearance , reflecting and fulfilling every desire of their

male partners.  This harmony is not something which should provoke

feminists to fury, but is like the yin-yang of Eastern philosophy.  This

view, of course, brings me into strong disagreement with those (such as

Alicia Ostriker and Anne Mellors)  who  see Blake as giving males free

rein in Eden while the females tend the children in `inferior'  Beulah.   

Pam van Schaik, Unisa, Pretoria 


Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:22:16 -0400

From: "Rick Van Valkenburg" 


Subject: Streaming Blake's Urizen

Message-Id: <>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi. I recently discovered this list and I thought I would de-lurk to

introduce myself and to inform you about the extraTEXTure Web edition of

The First Book of Urizen

In an attempt to make reading off a computer monitor more accessible and

provide a different way to experience the words I have presented the entire

text verse by verse. That is each verse is a separate file with buttons

linking to the next verse or to a table of contents page.

I would appreciate any feedback on this method. 

I was excited by the aesthetic of Blake's words streaming verse by verse

through the void, but practically speaking it works best during low traffic

times (although the files are small, about 1K, and tend to load fast).

The URL is

It works well with most browsers, but surprisingly there seemed to be a

problem with Netscape 1.* aligning the text properly, but it works as

intended with versions 2.0 and up.

grace be w/ ye,

Rick van Valkenburg










Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:14:31 -0500

From: (R.H. Albright)


Subject: Eternity and Blakean Evolution


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I really like your point of view, but... I just don't see it.

Eternity is made up of Time and Space, isn't it? Los and the ever-awful

Enitharmon hold it all together (at least, in "Europe" she's a horror! And

Los isn't exactly nice to his first-born in Book of Urizen, is he? But they

CHANGE... move through STATES...). So I disagree with what you think

"eternity" ALWAYS (?) is with Blake, because much of the time I find the

ever-handy FIRST definitions in Damon's Blake Dictionary for "eternity" to

be something to which I can relate. Your eternity sounds like the

ever-after with Jesus. Am I wrong?

Then... the tyger. Always a devourer? Endorsing Urizenic reasoning? What?

Because it sounds like, maybe if you read later Blake, LOS, not Urizen,

hammered it out in the _Songs_ poem? "The tygers of wrath of wiser then the

horses of instruction."-MHH. Hey, sometimes you have to burn down a house

to build a new one. So isn't this statement potentially prolific, not

merely devouring?

The serpent in America... are you SURE those kids aren't being taken for a

ride? Orc saved the day... but what IS he, other than a fiery anarchist? If

the kids are happy, someone else is crying in that last plate. Justice?

Doesn't seem fair.

The path that the just man is on in Marriage of Heaven and Hell... how many

people, in Blake's time, would have known that definition of a "path" as

climbing a tree? I see the tree as a metephor for a path only because Blake

has placed it on the same plate as the description. It expands my vision of

what he's describing, but literally you can't follow it... up up up... into

the barren climes. Unless it's a Jack in the Beanstalk situation for him to

hop off and get honey bees to sing and roar with lions.

To me, if I were to follow your explanation on the last 3 points, it would

reduce the elasticity of Blake... how he sometimes says one thing but draws

another... as is obvious in Tyger, Tyger" and I tried to show in my Book of

Urizen and Orc's Bum Rap posts (I admit these were sarcastic, but they were

based on visual-verbal CONTRAST to show how Blake expands, not contracts,

our doors of perception).

Still, I'm interested in this all-in-one Blake theory of yours. Please...

more! And plate, line # references, perhaps?


Randall Albright

"Improvement makes strait roads, but the crooked roads without Improvement,

are roads of Genius."

        ---Plate 10, line 66, "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"


Date:         Tue, 30 Jul 96 16:44:29 EDT

From: Kevin Lewis 


Subject:      Re: Eternity and Blakean Evolution

Message-Id: <>

Blake did not aim for elasticity. Where could anyone ever get the idea

that "eternity" is made up of time and space! Have an afternoon? Read the

columns on "eternity" in the _OED_. I thought Pam's comments were

insightful, learned, and unusually sensitive to the historical Blake.



Date:      Tue, 30 Jul 1996 17:55:39 -0400 (EDT)

From: "Avery F. Gaskins" 


Subject:   Re: Eternity and Blakean Evolution


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The traditional view of eternity is that it is both timeless and spaceless.

That is: Eternity equals Infinity. That shouldn't rule out sequences of events,

but they may have now objective measurement as to length.

                                                         Avery Gaskins


Date:      Tue, 30 Jul 1996 17:57:17 -0400 (EDT)

From: "Avery F. Gaskins" 


Subject:   Re: Eternity and Blakean Evolution


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Sorry about the typo. "now objective measurement" should be "no objective


             Avery Gaskins


End of blake-d Digest V1996 Issue #96