------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blake-d Digest Volume 1996 : Issue 33 Today's Topics: Re: "spare" in sonnet XX Re: What is Milton's "Sonnet XX"? Disregard (was Re: What is Milton's "Sonnet XX"?) Re: golgonooza responses SIGNOFF * (NETWORK _Milton_ & "Frankenstein" Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana Re: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana Re: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana Re: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana RE: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana Re: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana Marriage of Heaven and Hell Re: Golgonooza -Reply Re: Marriage of Heaven and Hell Re: Marriage of Heaven and Hell Blake and Psychoanalysis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 00:43:24 -0500 From: Penn Hackney To: "blake@albion.com" Subject: Re: "spare" in sonnet XX Message-Id: <199604110439.AAA18581@yoda.fyi.net> -- [ From: Penn Hackney * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > Date: Wednesday, 10-Apr-96 01:59 PM > From: Derek Wood \ Internet: (dwood@juliet.stfx.ca) > [snip] > The problem is whether Milton means what Diane McColley reads: "to > enjoy pleasure without excess." Invoking Horatian moderation is not exactly a > help. Horace often seems to praise excessive pleasure(a moderate number of > times) if the occasion justified it! When his friend Pompeius returns, he > plans mad revelry. With "oblivioso...Massico" he plans not to sip, surely , but > to get blind drunk: > non ego sanius > bacchabor edonis: recepto > dulce mihi furere est amico. > (ODES.2.7) It's quite unnerving to imagine Milton "blind drunk." (I'm not suggesting Derek Wood was suggesting this of Milton.) Though I imagine he did have a sense of humor and a taste for wine -- sternly regulated and rarely displayed, of course, perhaps in the bosom of his family and safely among friends like Edward Lawrence. > Again in 2.11, the kind of pleasure Horace proposes with the help of lovely > Lyde is not exactly Puritan. And often Horatian pleasure proposed is something > like an escape from despair (4.11). So John's hankering after Fish's reading > is very apposite, since Milton so deliberately alludes to Horace. I think in > Milton's case the moderation is indicated before "spare" -- the wine is not > for oblivion, the the feast is "light and choice." (Betty knew well how to > prepare those.) The music too is delicious. No excess or intoxication there. > Given this, why not "interpose them oft"? But only if you are able to "judge" (distinguish, use aright) "of those delights". For "spare" I like "afford" and "spare time to" -- one needs both wherewithal and the right priorities take a day off in bad weather to enjoy music and food instead of working all the time. As to the litotes "not unwise", Hughes (1957) points out (not without humor) that the "wise man" was the model equally for the Epicurean as for the Stoic . > > With best wishes, > > Derek Wood Very nice, Derek. Thanks. -- Penn Hackney tcdpenn@fyi.net penn@worldnet.att.net Without Unceasing Practice nothing can be done. Practice is Art. If you leave off, you are Lost. -- William Blake, Laocovn, c. 1820 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 01:24:59 -0500 From: Penn Hackney To: "blake@albion.com" Subject: Re: What is Milton's "Sonnet XX"? Message-Id: <199604110520.BAA19318@yoda.fyi.net> -- [ From: Penn Hackney * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Sonnet XX -- I do not know why it is called by other numbers in some editions. Lawrence of vertuous Father vertuous Son, Now that the Fields are dank, and ways are mire, Where shall we sometimes meet, and by the fire Help wast a sullen day; what may be won From the hard Season gaining: time will run On smoother, till Favonius re-inspire The frozen earth; and cloth in fresh attire The Lillie and Rose, that neither sow'd nor spun. What neat repast shall feast us, light and choice, Of Attick tast, with Wine, whence we may rise To hear the Lute well toucht, or artfull voice Warble immortal Notes and Tuskan Ayre? He who of those delights can judge, and spare To interpose them oft, is not unwise. from gopher://gopher.vt.edu:10010/02/123/28 -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Thursday, 11-Apr-96 12:27 PM From: Akio Ohnishi \ Internet: (lilyland@tamacc.chuo-u.ac.jp) To: milton-l@urvax.urich.edu \ Internet: (milton-l@urvax.urich.edu) cc: lilyland@tamacc.chuo-u.ac.jp \ Internet: (lilyland@tamacc.chuo-u.ac.jp) Subject: What is Milton's "Sonnet XX"? [snip] -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- -- Penn Hackney tcdpenn@fyi.net penn@worldnet.att.net Without Unceasing Practice nothing can be done. Practice is Art. If you leave off, you are Lost. -- William Blake, Laocovn, c. 1820 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 02:03:16 -0500 From: Penn Hackney To: "blake@albion.com" Subject: Disregard (was Re: What is Milton's "Sonnet XX"?) Message-Id: <199604110559.BAA19991@yoda.fyi.net> -- [ From: Penn Hackney * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I'm sorry for the mis-directed post. Please disregard and delete (after reading the sonnet, of course ). -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Thursday, 11-Apr-96 01:24 AM From: Penn Hackney \ Internet: (tcdpenn@fyi.net) To: blake@albion.com \ Internet: (blake@albion.com) Subject: Re: What is Milton's "Sonnet XX"? Sonnet XX -- [snip] -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- -- Penn Hackney tcdpenn@fyi.net penn@worldnet.att.net Without Unceasing Practice nothing can be done. Practice is Art. If you leave off, you are Lost. -- William Blake, Laocovn, c. 1820 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 11:28:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Darlene Sybert To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: golgonooza responses Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 8 Apr 1996, Howard Hinkel wrote: > > Jonathan Epstein--and thank you. In a couple of days I'll write directly > to you. Have you found the Easson and Easson commentary helpful in the > work you are doing? > In your sharing together, remember the list. I, for one, am interested in golgonooza, also, and wish you would continue the discussion here. Or share some of the insights, etc. Darlene Sybert http://www.missouri.edu/~c557506/index.htl University of Missouri at Columbia, English Dept Office: 6 Tate Hall Tu-Th 1:30-3:30 or by appt ****************************************************************************** ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 18:23:46 -0400 From: rond To: blake@albion.com Subject: SIGNOFF * (NETWORK Message-Id: <9604112223.AA19923@sun> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SIGNOFF * (NETWORK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 19:02:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Jonathan Epstein To: blake@albion.com Subject: _Milton_ & "Frankenstein" Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear fellow Blake enthusiasts, Sorry for having slacked, as I said I would post my two cents worth about Milton and Frankenstein. It is what I am writing my thesis on, so it's a far cry from expertise, it's just ideas: I proposed that "Milton" while it is not to "Justify the ways of God to Man" as he dubtitled it, is moreover "to justify the ways of man to men." I see the poem as an exploration of the self -- and Milton descends into "self-annihilation" to 'find himself' (I hate that phrase, and I don't use it, but I think it lets people know what I'm going after). Compiled with my research & talks with my professor (Ashton Nichols, Dickinson College), I think that Blake protrays each individual as being 4-fold -- being composed of a humanity, shadow, spectre and emanation. Once people reunite with them on an _internal_ level, then they will be a part of that vortex Blake talks about -- suspending them in immortality. This is very similar to Nietzschie's idea of the Eternal Return, I think. To contrast & compare to Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein" I said that Victor projected himself externally and created the half which he was missing (the humanity and the shadow). But, like all Blakeian things, the roles change a bit and overlap a touch. I used Victor as a negative example, as he did not follow his true self, and showed what happens, in a Blakeian sense of what happens if you don't. The monster, however, gets very close to this completion, however, it fails because Voctor dies too soon trying to run from Milton's prophecy. I have only used _Milton_ (and a few lines from MHH) for sake of simplicity. However, if you guys have any ideas about this, please post them, as I would be most interested. Better hurry, though -- I'm in my final proofread, and it is due next week. Thanks for your continued support and informative discussions. Jonathan Epstein epstein@dickinson.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 20:05:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Ralph Dumain To: blake@albion.com Subject: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana Message-Id: <199604120305.UAA10304@igc2.igc.apc.org> I've been very busy, but I've nonetheless taken out some time for used-bookstore-hopping. I saw the following books but did not buy. Any comments? Clutton-Brock, Alan. BLAKE. New York: Macmillan, 1933. (Great Lives) $5. Old, but looks like mere biographical sketch. Hagstrum, Jean H. EROS AND VISION: THE RESTORATION TO ROMANTICISM. $8. Has 2 Blake essays. Powys, John Cowper. SUSPENDED JUDGMENTS. Village Press. $5. Chapter on Blake. Blake seems to be one of author's two lasting inspirations of writers reviewed. Punter, David. THE LITERATURE OF TERROR. $12.50. Summerfield(?), Geoffrey. FANTASY AND REASON: CHILDREN'S LITERATURE OF THE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY. $8. And here is a list of relevant books I bought cheap: Bottrall, Margaret, ed. WILLIAM BLAKE: SONGS OF INNOCENCE AND EXPERIENCE: A CASEBOOK. Nashville; London: Aurora Publishers Incorporated, 1970. Damrosch, Leo. FICTIONS OF REALITY IN THE AGE OF HUME AND JOHNSON. Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 1989. Hamilton, Paul. COLERIDGE'S POETICS. Stanford: Stanford University Press, 1983. Hill, Christopher. THE EXPERIENCE OF DEFEAT: MILTON AND SOME CONTEMPORARIES. New York: Penguin, 1985. McGann, Jerome J. SOCIAL VALUES AND POETIC ACTS: THE HISTORICAL JUDGMENT OF LITERARY WORK. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1988. Any remarks? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 01:43:54 -0500 From: Penn Hackney To: "blake@albion.com" Subject: Re: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana Message-Id: <199604120539.BAA27523@yoda.fyi.net> -- [ From: Penn Hackney * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > Date: Thursday, 11-Apr-96 08:05 PM > > From: Ralph Dumain \ Internet: (rdumain@igc.apc.org) > To: blake@albion.com \ Internet: (blake@albion.com) > > Subject: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana > > I've been very busy, but I've nonetheless taken out some time for > used-bookstore-hopping. I saw the following books but did not buy. Any > comments? > > Clutton-Brock, Alan. BLAKE. New York: Macmillan, 1933. (Great Lives) $5. > Old, but looks like mere biographical sketch. > [snip many wonderful-sounding titles] > > Any remarks? Thanks, Ralph. > -- | Ars longa, vita brevis. | So many books, so little time. | The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. | "I wish life were not so short," he thought. "Languages take | such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 02:17:29 -0500 From: brackett@tribeca.ios.com (G.L. Brackett/D.K. Means) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I've been very busy, but I've nonetheless taken out some time for >used-bookstore-hopping. I saw the following books but did not >buy. Any comments? Hi R. Dumain-- my name is Geof Brackett, I teach at Pace univeristy in NYC (Romanticism, w/ Blake specialty, but mostly comp. & core courses). I saw your post and thought I'd send a couple of brief comments. >Hamilton, Paul. COLERIDGE'S POETICS. Stanford: Stanford >University Press, 1983. > excellent book on the workings of STC's poetry, philosophy, and production, and he manages to perceive and argue for a unity in STC's work that had before this book never been (to my knowledge) explored so successfully. >Hill, Christopher. THE EXPERIENCE OF DEFEAT: MILTON AND SOME >CONTEMPORARIES. New York: Penguin, 1985. > one of the best critics out there from the political left, and this is a fine book. Hill works beautifully, I think, with the details of text, biography, and social/political contextualization. This work is really a second volume which grew out of his ealier book MILTON AND THE ENGLISH REVOLUTION, which is an essential volume for those with any kind of interest in JM. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 09:15:00 EDT From: "Fabian, Matthew" To: "'SMTP:blake@albion.com'" Subject: Re: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana Message-Id: <316E575A@smtpgate1.moodys.com> Does anyone else bawl like I do that Hill was too fixed in the seventheenth century to write a book on Blake? Still, THE WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN, not to mention the books on Bunyan and Milton are great background for EP's study. -Matt Fabian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 15:21:05 +0100 From: d.g.punter@stir.ac.uk (David Punter {Eng}) (David Punter {Eng}) To: blake@albion.com (blake) Subject: RE: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana Message-Id: <1996Apr12.152002.1131.424750@findhorn.stir.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" If you see David Punter, The Literature of Terror, then I suggest you buy it. But then, I would, wouldn't I? David Punter ---------- From: blake[SMTP:blake@albion.com] Sent: 11 April 1996 20:05 To: blake Subject: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana I've been very busy, but I've nonetheless taken out some time for used-bookstore-hopping. I saw the following books but did not buy. Any comments? Clutton-Brock, Alan. BLAKE. New York: Macmillan, 1933. (Great Lives) $5. Old, but looks like mere biographical sketch. Hagstrum, Jean H. EROS AND VISION: THE RESTORATION TO ROMANTICISM. $8. Has 2 Blake essays. Powys, John Cowper. SUSPENDED JUDGMENTS. Village Press. $5. Chapter on Blake. Blake seems to be one of author's two lasting inspirations of writers reviewed. Punter, David. THE LITERATURE OF TERROR. $12.50. Summerfield(?), Geoffrey. FANTASY AND REASON: CHILDREN'S LITERATURE OF THE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY. $8. And here is a list of relevant books I bought cheap: Bottrall, Margaret, ed. WILLIAM BLAKE: SONGS OF INNOCENCE AND EXPERIENCE: A CASEBOOK. Nashville; London: Aurora Publishers Incorporated, 1970. Damrosch, Leo. FICTIONS OF REALITY IN THE AGE OF HUME AND JOHNSON. Madison: University of Wisconsin Press, 1989. Hamilton, Paul. COLERIDGE'S POETICS. Stanford: Stanford University Press, 1983. Hill, Christopher. THE EXPERIENCE OF DEFEAT: MILTON AND SOME CONTEMPORARIES. New York: Penguin, 1985. McGann, Jerome J. SOCIAL VALUES AND POETIC ACTS: THE HISTORICAL JUDGMENT OF LITERARY WORK. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1988. Any remarks? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 11:19:06 -0500 From: jmichael@seraph1.sewanee.edu (J. Michael) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Bookstore--hopping for Blake-iana Message-Id: <9604121624.AA14545@uu6.psi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hagstrum, Jean H. EROS AND VISION: THE RESTORATION TO >ROMANTICISM. $8. Has 2 Blake essays. This is very good (I had the pleasure of meeting the late Mr. Hagstrum and having him read one of my papers, although he was retired from Northwestern by the time I got there, so maybe I'm biased.) The two Blake essays, on the body of Christ and Blake's idea of God, are also available in other collections, as I recall, so if you're really not interested in the 18c you might prefer another of Hagstrum's books, _The Romantic Body_, which concentrates on Blake, Byron, and Keats. Incidentally, Hagstrum's _Wm. Blake, Poet and Painter_ was one of the first to seriously consider Blake's art and poetry side-by-side; it's definitely worth having. Jennifer MIchael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 13:03:07 -0400 From: "Jamison Ashley Oughton" To: blake@albion.com Subject: Marriage of Heaven and Hell Message-Id: <9604121303.ZM18966@eos.ncsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am sorry to ask a question which would probably take many pages, if not chapters, to answer, but can somebody give me a quick summary of what the Marriage of Heaven and Hell is about? What are some things for someone, who is not well acquainted with Blake, to keep in mind while reading it in order to understand it better? Jamison Oughton ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 13:43:50 -0500 (CDT) From: HXNEWSAM@ualr.edu To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Golgonooza -Reply Message-Id: <960412134350.4021710c@ualr.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Pam, This really doesn't have to do with Golgonooza, but more with your comment on Los as the creator of the "Tyger." I recently reread this poem for a class, and picked up on the furnace and metal-working images of the creator. In a previous class I had written a paper on the Tyger and not being familiar with the imagery of Los at the time overlooked this connection. I really like this idea, and it's nice to see it come up elsewhere. If you have any other thoughts on this I would love to hear them. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 14:31:08 -0500 From: jmichael@seraph1.sewanee.edu (J. Michael) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Marriage of Heaven and Hell Message-Id: <9604121940.AA08008@uu6.psi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I am sorry to ask a question which would probably take many pages, if >not chapters, to answer, but can somebody give me a quick summary of what the >Marriage of Heaven and Hell is about? What are some things for someone, who is >not well acquainted with Blake, to keep in mind while reading it in order to >understand it better? > > Jamison Oughton One word to keep in mind: SATIRE Jennifer Michael P.S. The Oxford edition of MHH has a helpful introduction by Keynes, as well as commentary on the individual plates. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 15:44:03 -0500 From: enghhh@showme.missouri.edu (Howard Hinkel) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Marriage of Heaven and Hell Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I am sorry to ask a question which would probably take many pages, if >not chapters, to answer, but can somebody give me a quick summary of what the >Marriage of Heaven and Hell is about? What are some things for someone, who is >not well acquainted with Blake, to keep in mind while reading it in order to >understand it better? > > Jamison Oughton You'll probably get a number of responses, no doubt some at odds with one another; that's part of the beauty of MHH. So one brief suggestion: think hard about the question just before the Proverbs: "How do you know but ev'ry Bird that cuts the airy way, / Is an immense world of delight, clos'd by your senses five?" Then consider how some of the Proverbs and Memorable Fancies ask and answer that question. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 13:39:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Greg Sturgeon To: blake@albion.com Subject: Blake and Psychoanalysis Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Does anyone know of any critics who have looked at Blake either side-by-side with contemporary psychoanalysis (Lacan, Kristeva) or from a psychoanalytic perspective? I've been looking for Mark Bracher's _Being Form'd_, but the library here doesn't have it. Greg Sturgeon c647679@showme.missouri.edu enggreg@showme.missouri.edu http://www.missouri.edu/~c647679/ -------------------------------- End of blake-d Digest V1996 Issue #33 *************************************