------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blake-d Digest Volume 1996 : Issue 16 Today's Topics: Intro and Feuerbach Re: Re: blake and german idealism? Re: Intro and Feuerbach Re: BARD'S VOICE / EARTH'S ANSWER -Reply -Reply -Reply (fwd) -Reply Revolution and rape Subscribing... Axiom Mailing List Re: Intro and Feuerbach Re: WEIRD BLAKE SIGHTINGS: GLONEO TRANSLATION Re: Revolution and rape WEIRD BLAKE SIGHTINGS -- THE MUSICAL CLOD? Re: Re: blake and german idealism? Re: Revolution and rape Re: Axiom Mailing List Re: Axiom Mailing List Re: Introduction ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:23:01 -0500 From: grayrobe@pilot.msu.edu (Robert M. Gray, Jr.) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Intro and Feuerbach Message-Id: <199603120323.WAA12978@pilot06.cl.msu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, My name is Rob Gray, and I am a doctoral candidate in English at Michigan State, planning a dissertation on Romantic conceptions of urbanity, which will focus primarily on Blake and Wordsworth. I joined the list last week and look forward to receiving lots of insight, and hopefully giving some as well. In terms of the Blake-Feuerbach connection, I don't think I can help very much, as I know virtually nothing about the latter, aside from what Marx obliterates in his famous "Theses." You know, "Philosophers have always interpreted the world; the point is to change it" (Okay, so it's not a direct quote, but you get the idea). But it strikes me that your best route, at least through the scholarship, to finding such a connection will probably be to start in the Marxist work on Blake. There's not a great deal out there of note--Minna Doskow has a nice article that suggests ways of reading Blake through Marx but doesn't do a great deal with it; E.P. Thompson's last book is, of course, a good place to start; Jack Lindsay has a book on Blake that's supposed to be good; but the best work that I've found, which may have slipped by a lot of people, is a little book by A. L. Morton called THE EVERLASTING GOSPELL. It was written in the late 50's, but it does some nice things with the material and the dialectic in Blake. It is at least worth taking a look at. Also, one of my committee members, Vic Paananen, has a book coming out this month that is a Marxist reading of Blake. You might look for that as well (a little promotionalism never hurt anybody, much). For what it's worth, Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 23:58:10 -0500 From: WaHu@aol.com To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Re: blake and german idealism? Message-Id: <960311235808_348540427@mail06.mail.aol.com> I got another phone call from Blake today, and he begged me to ask the horses of instruction to stop trying to fix him up with philosophers. "I don't date philosophers" were his exact words, "Hell, I'd sooner date Dr. Johnson. At least he's an Englishman." I told him he would be a problem for the philosophers as well-- because he was more intelligent than all but maybe five of them "That's not saying much, mate." And then he said to me, "'ooo was that left-wing Hegelian I seen you with last night?" To which I could only reply, "That was no Hegelian, that was my philosophy." Hugh Walthall wahu@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 00:00:57 -0800 From: Ralph Dumain To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Intro and Feuerbach Message-Id: <199603120800.AAA09199@igc4.igc.apc.org> Bob, thanks for your input. >aside from what Marx obliterates in his famous "Theses." I hope I don't have to go through this again, having just chewed out the Hegelians. >will probably be to start in the Marxist work on Blake. I avoided taking this route so far for a number of reasons. In terms of Blake and the dialectic, there might be some good stuff there. But the question of Marxist interpretations of literature, Blake especially, is such a potentially huge area and one which I someday wish to investigate as a separate topic, that I didn't want to have to face it right away. After all, what would a Marxist interpretation of Blake do? There are a million marxist routes to take to Blake. I am not looking primarily for an overtly political interpretation, although that is part of what I'm doing. There are aspects in which I see the young Marx as being much closer to Blake than any of the Young Hegelians, but I'm thinking primarily in methodological terms rather than in overt political commitment, not that the two are necessarily separable. At this point I'm thinking in terms of abstract and concrete rather than dialectical contradiction or progression. Also the division of labor is an important issue. >Minna Doskow has a nice article that suggests ways of reading >Blake through Marx Do you have a citation? >E.P. Thompson's last book It's a great book, to be sure, but I don't think it answers my specific questions beyond showing how Blake's use of sources was completely opposed to the official culture of his time. >Jack Lindsay has a book on Blake... Two books. Many years ago I read the biography that came out in the 1970s. I don't recall my reaction to it except for some annoyance in spots. I never read Lindsay's 1927 book, which I would like to find. Lindsay learned all his dialectics from Blake, long before Marx entered his life. Lindsay was also influenced by Hegel. >book by A. L. Morton called THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL. I constantly see references to this, and I must get it one day. I believe Morton tracks Blake's antinomian sources. >Vic Paananen, has a book coming out this month Please keep me posted. I'd love to know more. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:09:33 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com, nhilton@parallel.park.uga.edu Subject: Re: BARD'S VOICE / EARTH'S ANSWER -Reply -Reply -Reply (fwd) -Reply Message-Id: Dear Nelson, Your association of the Bard with `barred' strikes me as almost kabbalistic in that iinner connections between the word and one's reality , it would seem, can become apparent to the initiate. However, I know that this is not `where you're coming from' . The deconstructionist approach always leaves me a little bemused : what you say strikes me as creative word-play, and while I can see where you delight in the magical liberty of free association of word with word, textually and intertextually, I see no reason to share your perception of the Bard. His voice is too strikingly similar to that of the poet who, in the longer prophetic poems, depicts Los as heroic in his efforts to gather up the scattered divine sparks and so work them in his Furnaces that something of the original beauty of Jerusalem may be seen in the fallen world. Los, like the Bard, recognises that Urizen is `Satan' - and surely the `Father of the ancient men' who with ~Starry Jealousy' keeps Earth's den , and who perceives the free loves of Eternity ( represented by Jerusalem, in the longer poems), as sinful , is patently Urizenic? The imagery which is associated with Earth - of awakening from Sleep and casting off the `fetters of finitude' recurs in the longer poems in which the poet prophesies an awakening of the Earth from the deathly Sleep caused originally by Urizen's false visions of good and evil and his perception of god as the Accuser. The Bard sounds to me exactly like Blake himself when he steps forward in Jerusalem to declare his themes ; "I also hope the Reader will be with me, wholly One in Jesus our Lord, who is the God of Fire and Lord of Love to whom the Ancients look'd and saw his day afar off, with trembling & amazement". In endorsing a God of love and mercy and Jesus, the Forgiver, Blake must be on the side of the oppressed whom he sees as `barred' from their birthright - participation in the divine marriage of Jesus and Jerusalem , by means of which their senses were able to expand away from their Selfhoods and become reunited with the true God and true "Father" of all . As Blake says in Jerusalem, plate 3, :"The Primeval State of Man was Wisdom, Art and Science", in Eternity. To return to obscuring `Clouds' - relying on kabbalistic synchronism, I idly turned the pages of my Blake copy and came across the following, which seems highly relevant: But Los dispers'd the clouds even as the strong winds of Jehovah, And Los thus spoke: "O noble Sons, be patient yet a little! ... O Sons, we live not by wrath; by mercy alone we live!...... Here, surely, Los is dispersing the `clouds of reasoning' of Urizen so as to restore Jerusalem and the vision of joy, thanksgiving and compassion which she represents to Earth - and this, if there is any consistency in Blake, is also the task of the Bard - to sing us songs in which there is hope of release from the fetters of a false vision of god, and to remind us of our own immortal origins and inheritance, once freed from the prison -`den' of our bodies. In interpreting Blake, I hope to advance Blake's own purpose in writing which I perceive as opening up the inward heart to a vision of Love which can help to renew the `ancient golden age' and contribute something towards removing the dark clouds which `bar' Earth from heaven. So, I have to say I love the Bard. Pam van Schaik, English Dept, University of South Africa, Pretoria. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:45:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Michelle L. Gompf" To: blake@albion.com Cc: blake@albion.com Subject: Revolution and rape Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I know it's an odd subject line, but it is my subject. I recently sent off a paper proposal to a conference at Baylor University and it got accepted. The title is "Revolution born of Rape: Blake's _America: A Prophecy_ and _The Visions of the Daughters of Albion_" I now have to write an 8 page paper on this topic. Basically, since the conference is focused on chaos and distortion in literature, I looked through my Blake and came up with this topic. I'll be focusing on OOthoon's rape in VDA and how it is a spark for revolution. I'll also be examing the idea of Bromion taking/ raping her American plains. In America, I'm looking at the opening section (forgive my vagueness, I haven't done much with the continental prophecies and I don't have my books woith me here in the office lab) where the shadowy female is raped and the spirit of revolution is born. In both works there are visual images reminiscent of Fuseli's "The Nightmare" that I wish to incorporate into my discusion. Basically, I'd just like some feedback. My general idea is that Blake knew the horror and disruptiuon that needed to spark a revolution, and while recognizing that rape (of people, land etc) is horrendous it serves a purpose in sparking people to action. Any ideas, sources I should consult (I'm already looking at Erdman)? Michelle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:54:33 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Kerze To: blake@albion.com Subject: Subscribing... Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am Michael Kerze and have just recently joined the list of subscribers. I am Director of the Chapel and Interfaith Center at Occidental College in Los Angeles, the college ombudsperson, and I teach in History and Cultural Sciences. My specialization is religion and science and I dearly love William Blake. I am especially interested in Blake's vision of the human imagination as the "body of Christ" and his views about the scientific culture of his day. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 05:09:30 -1000 (HST) From: axiom@aloha.net To: axiom@aloha.net Subject: Axiom Mailing List Message-Id: <199603121509.FAA12689@hookomo.aloha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you have received this information by mistake, please let us know and you'll be quickly removed from the Axiom mailing list. Thank you from AXIOM presents McKenna/ Novelty: The Approaching New Millennium, Its Perils and Promise TERENCE MCKENNA A THINK ALONG TOUR SPRING - 1996 "If only a fraction of McKenna's thought is true, he will someday be regarded as the Copernicus of consciousness..."--The Village Voice. 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With minutes to go before the end of human history psychoactivist Terence McKenna proposes hard wiring the soul to hot wire the UFO within. The forward escape into the psychedelic cyberspace of post history is happening. The ships are leaving soon and are taking no ghosts. Learn how you are a part of the Great Adventure. The approaching new millennium, its perils and promise will be the theme. We will examine human attitudes toward the Other, discuss Time and its mysteries, the nature of language and the techniques of ecstasy that have developed in non-Western societies to navigate to and from invisible worlds. We will analyze and review the past thousand years with an eye to trends and opportunities that the future may bring. The role of hallucinogenic plants will be discussed in depth--their role in shamanism, and their impact on the general evolution of human cultures and social forms. 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I am paying by: ( ) Check (payable to AXIOM) ( ) Credit Card (a service charge will be added for payment by credit card) Visa _____ MasterCard _____ Discover _____ Card No. _________________________________________________ Expiration Date ____________ Cardholder Signature _____________________________________ Mail Registration to: Axiom, P.O. Box 190, Makawao, HI 96768 Telephone: 1-800-76-AXIOM Fax: 1-808-572-5079 EMAIL: axiom@aloha.net http:// www. aloha. net/~axiom/ ******************************************** AXIOM axiom@aloha.net http://www.aloha.net/~axiom/ ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:36:02 -0500 From: grayrobe@pilot.msu.edu (Robert M. Gray, Jr.) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Intro and Feuerbach Message-Id: <199603121736.MAA38881@pilot05.cl.msu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>Minna Doskow has a nice article that suggests ways of reading >>Blake through Marx >Do you have a citation? Doskow's article, "The Humanized Universe of Blake and Marx," is in a collection of essays, WILLIAM BLAKE AND THE MODERNS, ed. Robert Bertholf and Annette Levitt (1982). If I remember correctly, she essentially tries to connect the two writers, showing that they are in many ways talking about the same kinds of things. This is one of my primary interests in working with Blake, not so much the Marxist angle (although it is indeed helpful), but more in terms of the "real world" implications of his works, in other words, the "material" or, in your terms, the "concrete." Your "thinking primarily in methodological terms rather than in overt political commitment, not that the two are necessarily separable" is quite at the heart of my interest. My interest in Marx is certainly more methodological than political: it particularly interests me that much of what he does is so closely methodologically similar to what many, if not all, of the English Romantics do--they all recognize that "Man" is alienated, even reified (each has his own reasons, but it strikes me that most of these reasons are intimately linked to the rise of industrialism and the division of labor) and seek to find some kind of reconciliation. The difference between Marx and the poets is that his vision of reconcilation happens in the real world rather than in the imagination, and what Doskow, Morton, Paananen, myself, and possibly you as well recognize, is that Blake, certainly more than the other poets, aside possibly from early Shelley, can (and should?) be read as having at least the possibility of real world manifestations. Your "thinking in terms of abstract and concrete" is very similar to what Doskow, Morton, et al., are saying, except that they (we) might use the terms material and ideal instead. I believe one of Paananen's main points is to deemphasize the artificial division between the two, which brings up another quick point. It strikes me that this issue is also at the heart of Emerson's NATURE. In fact, Emerson and Blake seem remarkably similar in terms of the material/ideal division. Perhaps this comes from Swedenborg (this is something I've been meaning to look into). Perhaps the scholarhip on Blake or Emerson that deals with Swedenborg might be helpful, and might even lead to some insights into the Feuerbach connection. My suspicion is that his "crude materialism" might have a hard time meshing, just as it seems that Hegel's idealism would as well. The truth, it seems, is in the progression of these contraries. >>book by A. L. Morton called THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL. > >I constantly see references to this, and I must get it one day. I >believe Morton tracks Blake's antinomian sources. I think this might be your ticket. He does track those sources, but I think the value of the work is in its reading of JERUSALEM's material and political elements. I'll let you know when Paananen's book comes out. I hope this helps, *************************************************************************** *Robert M. Gray, Jr. "His thought is redneck, doctrinal,* *Departments of English and ATL and deliciously supple." * *Michigan State University adapted from Terry Eagleton's * *grayrobe@pilot.msu.edu IDEOLOGY: AN INTRODUCTION * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:55:52 -0800 From: rmcdonell@ucsd.edu (Robert McDonell) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: WEIRD BLAKE SIGHTINGS: GLONEO TRANSLATION Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anyone on the Blake list in the San Diego area can see a small show, "Still Life (in her vision)," which uses text from Blake in juxtaposition with oil on canvas still lifes (themselves equally inspired by sixteenth century Spanish still life painters). The artist, Cheryl Parry, with whom I share life, has previously done similar work involving Walt Whitman and Rachel Carson. At the "Next Door" Gallery in Golden Hill through April 10. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:44:43 -0500 (EST) From: John William Axcelson To: blake@albion.com Cc: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Revolution and rape Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Michelle L. Gompf wrote: > Any ideas, sources I should consult (I'm already looking at Erdman)? > > Michelle > Michelle, One place to start might be William Keach's "Blake, Violence, and Visionary Politics," to be found in a collection entitled *Representing the French Revolution,* ed. Heffernan. If I remember correctly, Keach is impatient with critics who view Blake as a pacifist revolutionary, arguing instead that Blake fully accepted the neccesity for revolutionary violence. As to the rape angle, I believe that Tilottama Rajan addresses this in her Blake chapters in *The Supplement of Reading.* She has smart things to say about Blake's use of women (and rape) figuratively. She also suggests that Oothoon is raped twice, subjected to a second, verbal rape in the course of VDA. John Axcelson Assistant Dean Columbia College Adj. Asst. Prof. English (212) 854-7307 jwa2@columbia.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:02:43 -0800 From: Ralph Dumain To: blake@albion.com Subject: WEIRD BLAKE SIGHTINGS -- THE MUSICAL CLOD? Message-Id: <199603121902.LAA22806@igc4.igc.apc.org> Last Friday I missed a concert here in Washington in which there was a performance of Willingham's "The Clod and the Pebble". What was that again? Never heard of Willingham. Never heard this composition. Sounds like our beloved Blake, though, doesn't it? Anybody have any information about this? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:01:11 -0800 From: Ralph Dumain To: blake@albion.com Cc: djones@uclink.berkeley.edu, jschwart@freenet.columbus.oh.us Subject: Re: Re: blake and german idealism? Message-Id: <199603121901.LAA22669@igc4.igc.apc.org> Hugh, others may not know what the Hegel you are talking about, but I read you loud and clear. >I got another phone call from Blake today, and he begged me to >ask the horses of instruction to stop trying to fix him up with >philosophers. They are lame, aren't they? Makes me smile. Next time Blake rings me up, I'll ask him if Feuerbach was a pompous egotistical ass like the others, and whether there is any commonality between Feuerbach's species being and Blake's divine universal humanity. I suspect Blake will agree with Marx that Feuerbach never got beyond generalized abstractions. >I told him he would be a problem for the philosophers as well-- >because he was more intelligent than all but maybe five of them > "That's not saying much, mate." Here I agree, but I'm still trying to fight the commonplace notion that Blake was a divinely inspired madman, whose thoughts are beyond the realm of systematic understanding of any kind. Now E.P. Thompson's book is brilliant because it is about the relation of the individual to traditions and refuses to take for granted the assumptions professors make about what it takes to become a thinker. Blake did not cover philosophy via the usual path of studying logic, metaphysics, epistemology, science, mathematics, etc., in order to work out the kind of ordered system that Kant or Hegel worked out, but that doesn't make him a dummy. Working in a different medium with different language and different materials Blake nonetheless thought farther ahead than all the pale philosophers put together. He was brilliant and unparalleled in history. I am not trying to make Blake respectable by juxtaposing him with Hegel and Feuerbach. I am rather trying to compare, contrast, and illuminate two different traditions and methods of intellectual work. I believe I am asking questions that nobody has ever asked before, and I am a total autodidact. I have zero credentials to do this work, except for the fact that I'm doing it. But if I have something to offer, it's because I'm not just another academic trained puppy dog. >... "'ooo was that left-wing Hegelian I seen you with last >night?" .... "That was no Hegelian, that was my philosophy." Take my geist, please. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:30:43 -0600 From: tomdill@womenscol.stephens.edu To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Revolution and rape Message-Id: <96031213304389@womenscol.stephens.edu> Not to bother you again, but I just thought of another title that might not be so obvious as the others I mentioned--It is Barton Friedman' _Fabricating History:English Writers on the French Revolution_. This is obviously not about the American revolution, and he focuses on Blake's unfinished "French Revolution," but I think you will find pertinent materials in it. Tom Dillingham ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 15:11:51 EST From: JMOSER41@PORTLAND.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (julie moser) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Axiom Mailing List Message-Id: I did happen to receive this list by mistake, but freakily enough, it gave me information about McKenna, who I've read and enjoyed. What is this list anyhow? I might want to keep it dpending on what it's on. Thanks, Julie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 13:34:15 -0800 From: Seth T. Ross To: blake@albion.com Cc: axiom@aloha.net Subject: Re: Axiom Mailing List Message-Id: <9603122134.AA03991@albion.com> Content-Type: text/plain JMOSER41@PORTLAND.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (julie moser) asks: > I did happen to receive this list by mistake, but freakily > enough, it gave me information about McKenna, who I've read > and enjoyed. What is this list anyhow? I might want to keep > it dpending on what it's on. Julie: I suggest you write to "axiom@aloha.net" to find out more. As the Blake list-maintainer, I frown upon unsolicited, commercial, off-topic posts to the Blake list (unless they're from me of course ;-). In any case, the Blake list shouldn't be part of their list distribution, and by cc'ing them on this mail, I'm requesting them to remove us. Yours, Seth Ross List-maintainer PS To leave the Blake list, send email to blake-request@albion.com with the word "unsubscribe" as the SUBJECT of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:44:47 -0500 From: SaddClown@aol.com To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Introduction Message-Id: <960312204433_167126053@mail04.mail.aol.com> HEy ronald, Im a high school freshman,,,, and i beleive that we are nearly the opnly ones that are still in hoighsschool. I love in NY, Long island. do you have a favorite poem by him? Mine is AH! sunflower. do you know of that one? w/b Florence -------------------------------- End of blake-d Digest V1996 Issue #16 *************************************