From: blake-d-request@albion.com Sent: Monday, November 11, 1996 5:29 PM To: blake-d@albion.com Subject: blake-d Digest V1996 #129 ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blake-d Digest Volume 1996 : Issue 129 Today's Topics: Re: Golgonooza Re: Laocoon engraving of 1818 correcting errors in textbooks Mysticism Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Re: Mysticism sublimity -Reply sublimity -Reply God, the universe and everthing (and Mr Blake!) -Reply Golgonooza -Reply sublime acts -Reply Mysticism -Reply Re: Lunar Island tape Urizen Question Re: Laocoon engraving of 1818 Re: Urizen Question Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Re: Urizen Question Blake and Jesus and their literating theology ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 23:27:33 -0800 (PST) From: "Matthew C. Whitaker" To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Golgonooza Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hey assolio!!! Why the hell do you keep writing to me!!!!!!???????????? Write me one more message, and I will rip out your larynx. Through your anus. On Sat, 9 Nov 1996, Giles David wrote: > > > I'd like to pop a quick blessing on Jennifer for welcoming untidy > raggamuffins such as myself into your community. Every village needs them in > order to keep the breeding stock in the manor amused after hours. Seriously > though, hats off to the Blake list for welcoming the intellectually > differently abled. I use a duke.edu webserver 'cos it's a borrowed computer. > I never went to University (became a monk instead) - but I've got vision, a > story and reasonable headgear up top and that's what counts. My exploration > is as valid as anyone else's. I'm slowly digesting your offerings, and will > let you know who wins fish biscuit. > > The soiree by the way, was a grade A success. I snuck in as many soundbites > as possible, actually much easier than anticipated, as we all had Blake > characters pinned to our backs. So the whole affair stayed in sharp focus. > But I write on another matter. I've hit upon a glitch in my use of Blake viz > my own handiwork. I'll be straight up, and shoot from the hip. Saves alot of > time. > > Blake without graffix. There I've said it. > > The words alone are great for cocktail shmooze and seminar (I'm guessing > about the latter) but it's a lot more fun with the pictures. Try imagining > Dr Devine's joke about Lacoon without the picture. Doesn't work. Blake knew > a thing or two. That's what made him a genius. And be honest, doesn't he get > our vote today, because when the chips are down and head hits the hay, we > yearn for the magic forests of childhood? Who among you, given half a > chance, wouldn't take a torch under the sheets to fly magic carpet and suck > gingerbread roof again. Grimm's Fairy Tales. Arabian Nights. D'you > rememember how they used to smell? High Mass and nutmeg junket. What a hit! > Or Asterix and Tintin if you're younger (You can't have it all in life) > > Anyway you're ahead of me as usual. And I talked with some of the writers at > the Blake do on this. If my hymn's gonna take, it needs the same approach. > So here's the scoop. If you've come across Howard Finster, you'll know what > I'm talking about. His angel boxes struck us all as the best road to walk > down. Plenty of scope for layers with a mirror at the back to suggest 'the > veil' and all that. Relatively easy to produce a limited edition (500 or > so). I spit on Grub St, so there's no inclination towards a mass market. > Unwanted Christmas presents, and all that. It'll all be done in the best > possible. Which is where the professors and the scholars you come in. I'm on > the look out for serious ideas. It's a serious hymn, so please rule out > painted popcorn surrounds along with Pitt as Christ and Depp as Blake, > scratch and sniff cards, and other such stuff. Unless you think these can be > worked in to say something serious about the times we live in. Of course, > the context of the song is now wider than Albion's druidic shores, so > pictures of Glastonbury in its present day New Age garb will not push my > button either. > > And once again, you'll find I'm not without a flow of largesse. In this > instance I imagine it might be possible to list contributors' names on the > back of each box. And if that ain't biscuit... > > Giles > ................................................................................ > Let's restore childhood to the godhead - playing on the shoulder of the giant. > ................................................................................ > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 07:09:12 -0800 From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Laocoon engraving of 1818 Message-Id: <199611101509.HAA15676@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > > > Sorry for raising yet another topic, but I am currently working on >connections between >Milton's _Samson Agonistes_ and, with your promptings, its >connections with Orc. > > I am currently wondering what connections can be drawn between >Blake's perceptions of the artist/revolutionary depicted in Orc and >Los, and those witnessed in his 1818 etching of Laocoon. > > Although I am familiar with the origins of the painting Blake >mimicked and added his aphorisms to, >I am interested in any references you may be able to direct me to >regarding what may have prompted Blake to engrave this painting and >whether he intended it to be independent of or combined with his >poetry. > Are the aphorisms to be used to evaluate Blake's other works? > Does God (Laocoon) represent just God or might he represent >Albion? > >Any ideas? > > > If you haven't already read them, the notes to *The Laocoon* in the "Late Illuminated Broadsides" portion of *Blake's Poetry and Design* contain a good deal of information on the origin and symbolism of the work. All arrangements of the ahorisms in print, as you know, are arbitrary, since in the original broadside they "flew over the ..sheet like graffiti" (BP&D, 425); the copytext for the Grant & Johnson edition was Geoffrey Keynes's *William Blake's Laocoon: A Last Testament.* A facsimile reprint was issued as late as 1993 by the Blake Trust, though there are several earlier versions & editions. Perhaps others can direct you to references more closely related to your own critical focus. Susan Reilly ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 09:56:18 CST From: Mark Trevor Smith To: blake@albion.com Subject: correcting errors in textbooks Message-Id: <9611101602.AA19568@uu6.psi.com> On Fri, 8 Nov 96 10:12 CST said: > > There are so many things we'd do better if we were starting all over! > These typos and little goofs are like fleas -- can't seem to get rid > of all of them at once -- sorry about that. -- Mary Lynn Johnson Even with its errors, the Norton Critical Edition of Blake remains the best one to use in the classroom, unless you want the Erdman edition, which contains all the words of Blake. Now that we have WWW editions, those problems of typos and other errata become easy to solve. For example, many of us have told Nelson Hilton of errors in eE; he simply corrects them for all future use. Read Jerome McGann's "The Rationale of Hypertext" for a marvelous theory of this new technology. It's at http://jefferson.village.Virginia.edu/public/jjm2f/rationale.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:05:34 -0600 From: caliban To: Blake Online Subject: Mysticism Message-Id: <32865FBC.2949@cdmnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of where I can become familiar with a general idea of Blake's mysticism. I am more interested in looking at his own work instead of secondary sources. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 19:03:59 -0600 From: tomdill@wc.stephens.edu (TOM DILLINGHAM) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Message-Id: <96111019035925@wc.stephens.edu> Mr. Murray informs us that "Lilberation [sic] theology was about as far from what Christ was preaching as can be imagined." Interesting statement offered with certainty--care to explain it and back it up? It's always interesting to see someone who is entirely certain he knows "what Jesus said"-- I believe Blake also thought that on more than one occasion. Tom Dillingham ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Nov 96 22:00:56 CST From: "M.T. Smith" To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Mysticism Message-Id: <9611110408.AA13642@uu6.psi.com> Many of us think that Blake can be called a mystic; many of us do not. I belong in the former camp. If you want to read Blake's own work to see his mysticism, just read all of it. But seriously, folks, my advice would be find Jerusalem in the new facsimile edition just issued (buy it for about 100 if you can) and go through every jot and tittleto your heart's and mystical soul's delight. Marvel at the illuminations and puzzle through the words. Watch Los the blacksmith learn the virtues of farming; watch Joseph the accuser forgive Mary; watch everybody embrace everybody. And most of all wallow in the mystic's simultaneous delight in the minute particulars of everyday life and the soaring speculations of the transfiguration. On Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:05:34 -0600 you said: >I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of where I can >become familiar with a general idea of Blake's mysticism. I am more >interested in looking at his own work instead of secondary sources. >Thanks. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:59:08 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com, jskoblo@daisy.ac.siue.edu, jskoblo@siue.edu Subject: sublimity -Reply Message-Id: To take up another point you raise about flying with one's own wings, Jeffrey, ... it is perhaps easiest to soar on one's own wings when these are `imped' to God's (as one of the Metaphysical poets suggests). I think in Blake's total vision, we are most fully ourselves and simultaneously most divine when we are MOST expanded into God's Imagination, Love, Intellect and Senses ... the Eternal Great Humanity Divine being the Ultimate Fourfold Man. This is not to deny our uniqueness ... not even Hopkins saw the need to deny that -even from the standpoint of Jesuit orthodoxy. Pam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:52:43 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com, jskoblo@daisy.ac.siue.edu, jskoblo@siue.edu Subject: sublimity -Reply Message-Id: Isee your point, Jeffrey, but true Innocence definitely requires sublime selflessness as it is this perpetual dying to self (what Blake elsewhere calls `self-annihilation' , and which Christ on the cross primarily signifies) that allows all that exists in Eternity to be sutained in unity with God. Of course, this is not possible in this fallen world since, weighed down by the senses , we all belong more to the category of the Devourer than the Prolific. And, of course, as Jesus in the Temple, there are many times on earth when the `tigers of wrath' are better than the `horses of instruction'. Neverhtheless, as can be gathered from the debate that raising the question of selflessness engenders, this is a neglected aspect of Blake's vision... and needs to be emphasised if some of the critical distortions are to be rectified. .. in my opinion. The way in which Blake precisely sees the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross is more problematic, however, since he regards a God who deals man a `thump on the head' and then sends Christ as a `balm', as less than divinely human. Perhaps others would like to discuss this, rather than going around in yet another cycle re selflessness? Pam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:22:33 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com, 106165.613@compuserve.com Subject: God, the universe and everthing (and Mr Blake!) -Reply Message-Id: I think you are right in seeing Blake's sense of humour and that he is a `major critic' of seemingly godly people. .. those who profess to love Christ for his selflessness and then behave cruelly and selfishly, included. I do not see him as bitter. Perhaps you could provide examples of where you think he is so? Pam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:34:30 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: dpvintin@acpub.duke.edu, blake@albion.com Subject: Golgonooza -Reply Message-Id: Giles, You could try putting kitty on the table and giving her the fish eggs - that could be seen as building Golgonooza - witness Blake's portrayal of the the human, dainty-fingered puss in his illustrations to Gray's elegy on a cat drowned while trying to catch a fish in a glass bowl! You could claim that you see all things as having a human -spiritual form, as evoked , too, in `The Book of Thel'. Or stir the fire, if there is one, assume a Los-like pose, and brood about the hazards of wordly life where there is a need to be `continually buildling' to counter those who are `continually destroying' Golgonooza. Pam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:17:30 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com, enghhh@showme.missouri.edu Subject: sublime acts -Reply Message-Id: Howard, I'm a little puzzled by what you said as there seems to be an unspoken feeling, perhaps, that if one really believes in selflessness that this is somehow antithetical to getting on with the realities of daily living? Pam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:20:04 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com, caliban@cdmnet.com Subject: Mysticism -Reply Message-Id: The first Chapter of Jerusalem would be a good place to begin to get an idea of Blake's mysticism. In this he states the nature of his themes and his beleif in a God who is accessible within all of us. Pam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 96 08:19 CST From: MLGrant@president-po.president.uiowa.edu To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Lunar Island tape Message-Id: <199611111428.IAA12202@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> In-Reply-To: <199611061447.IAA46151@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Susan Reilly & ML I produced and directed Blake's ISLAND IN THE MOON as a radio play at KPFK (Pacifica Radio) in Los Angeles in the summer of 1976 -- exactly twenty years ago, now that I notice -- inspired by, but taking a different course than, Jack Grant had done a few years earlier at the University of Connecticut. It was distributed throughout the public radio system during the mid '70's and the early '80's, when the "rights window" that we'd bought through the unions from the singers, actors, musicians, etc. expired. That much talent is a rather expensive proposition, then and now -- and so we were never able to afford the extra money it costs to clear rights for nonbroadcast distribution (e.g. audiocassette, CD); and, in effect, the thing dropped into oblivion. There hasn't been any point in years in even re-clearing the broadcast rights, since that side of public radio atrophied with the advent of Reagan, and no one would have a slot in which to play the damned thing even if we could get it to them. Alas. I have the master tapes. There are copies at Pacifica in Los Angeles, and in both the NYU Library and the Museum of Broadcasting in New York. You're welcome to call me about making provisions to audition. Everett Frost ML: Greeting to yrself and JEG. On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 MLGrant@president-po.president.uiowa.edu wrote: > ---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes -------------------------- - > From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) at internet > Date: 11/4/96 2:54PM > To: mlgrant at president-po > *To: blake@albion.com at internet > Subject: Re: Lunar Island et al. redux > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > > > I don't know whether a recording exists, but I'm forwarding the query to > Everett Frost (frost@is2.NYU.EDU). Perhaps he'll answer. > -- Mary Lynn Johnson > > ______________________________ Forward Header ________________________________ __ > Subject: Re: Lunar Island et al. redux > Author: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) at internet > Date: 11/4/96 2:54 PM > > > Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:54:16 -0800 > Old-Return-Path: > X-PH: V3.12@ns-mx.uiowa.edu > Resent-Message-Id: <"WZsDf.0.19.WdzVo"@los> > Resent-From: blake@albion.com > Reply-To: blake@albion.com > X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3449 > X-Loop: blake@albion.com > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: blake-request@albion.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- > > > John. > > I got my copy of *Blake's Poetry and Design* today (ed Johnson and > Grant) and am tearing into *Island in the Moon.* Thank you for > referring me to it. > > In the headnotes to the piece, the editors note that Everett Frost > produced it as a radio play for Pacifica Radio in 1976. > This MAY have been discussed already, but if not, does anyone know if > a recording is available? > > > The text notes suggest, after G.M. HArper, that "Antiquarian" was > meant to "represent" the Rev John Brand (1744-1806), who was appointed > secretary to the Soc of Antiquarians in 1784 and was the author of > *Observations on Popular Antiquities* (1777). > > > "Inflammable Gass the Wind-Finder" is meant possibly to represent Wm > Nicholson (1753-1815), author of *An Introduction to Natural > Philosophy* (1792), or perhaps Gustavus Katterfelto, who "performed 3 > scientific stage shows daily", George Fordyce, a supplier of hydrogen > for Lunardi's hot-air ballon (I THINK it was hot-air; balloon at any > rate), or even Joseph Priestly. > > There are more anotations of this kind---maybe it wd be best if you > inquire after those which interest you. > > Susan Reilly > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:58:03 -0500 From: "Alex J. Rodriguez" To: blake@albion.com Subject: Urizen Question Message-Id: <199611111558.KAA36037@freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was wondering if anyone could help me with this question for a paper of mine regarding the First Book of Urizen: Locate one or more points of resistance to reading (you may consider the strangeness of punctuation, information that seems to be missing or which should not be there, character's names or actions, events, etc.) in the Book of Urizen and discuss what functions such points may have in dislodging a "normal" reader's comfortable belief in a stable and homogeneous "real" world. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Alex Rodriguez ************************************************* alxgator@afn.org http://www.afn.org/~alxgator/ GO GATORS! 704-107 S.W. 16th Avenue Gainesville, Fl. 32601 (352) 380-9616 ************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 18:34:56 MET From: "D.W. DOERRBECKER" To: LVDP51A@prodigy.com ( PAUL SCANLON), blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Laocoon engraving of 1818 Message-Id: <10A78CE2E1A@netwareserver.uni-trier.de> November 11th, 1996 Dear Paul Scanlon: Susan Reilly already pointed out the discussion of Blake's own version of the "Laocoon" in *William Blake: Milton a Poem and the Final Illuminated Works*, ed. Robert N. Essick and Joseph Viscomi (["Blake's Illuminated Books"; vol. 5], Princeton, N.J.: Princeton University Press, 1993). This contains the most up-to-date account of the history and meaning of the separate plate (i.e., not part of any series of engravings), plus a fine list of earlier studies. An account of the physical properties of the print, a catalogue of the few impressions which have been recorded, and another fairly recent discussion of the meaning of the plate is part of Robert Essick's catalogue raisonne of *The Separate Plates of William Blake* (Princeton, N.J.: PUP, ?1983). The MLA's International Bibliography on CD-ROM should direct you to ?Herrstrom's article on the "Laocoon" which may prove useful, too. Blake was commissioned to engrave the Hellenistic sculptural group from the cast at the Royal Academy as an illustration for Rees's *Cyclopaedia* of ?1804-1818, and this, apparently, provided the starting point not only for his own separate plate, but also for an important large-scale drawing. The latter is illustrated and described, e.g., in Martin Butlin's catalogue raisonne of *The Paintings and Drawings of William Blake* (["Studies in British Art"], 2 vols., New Haven, Conn. and London: Yale University Press, for the Paul Mellon Centre for Studies in British Art, 1981). Another useful resource may be the late great Sir Geoffrey Keynes's *Blake's Laocoon: A Last Testament* (published by Trianon Press for the William Blake Trust in a limited edition sometime late in the 1970s). > Although I am familiar with the origins of the painting Blake > mimicked and added his aphorisms to, I am not aware of any *painting* of the Laocoon which may have been used by Blake and would be interested what you are thinking of (especially because the antique sculpture *as sculpture* is of such importance for Lessing's argument in the *Laocoon* and its reception in British late eighteenth-century art theory). Moreover, I don't think that Blake is actually "mimicking" the drama depicted by the sculptural group. In what sense do you think this is the case, and what would you consider the visual evidence for such "mimicking" in the 1818 print? --DW Doerrbecker ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:06:15 -0800 (PST) From: Carolyn Austin To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Urizen Question Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I suspect that list members will be more willing to enter into some discussion of this if you let us know what work you've done on this topic, and what sorts of preliminary thoughts you've had on it. Otherwise, many of us (I hope all of us) will read this as an attempt to get us to do your thinking for you. Carolyn Austin cfaustin@uci.edu On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Alex J. Rodriguez wrote: > I was wondering if anyone could help me with this question for a paper of > mine regarding the First Book of Urizen: > Locate one or more points of resistance to reading (you may consider the > strangeness of punctuation, information that seems to be missing or which > should not be there, character's names or actions, events, etc.) in the Book > of Urizen and discuss what functions such points may have in dislodging a > "normal" reader's comfortable belief in a stable and homogeneous "real" world. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > > Alex Rodriguez > ************************************************* > alxgator@afn.org http://www.afn.org/~alxgator/ > > GO GATORS! > > 704-107 S.W. 16th Avenue > Gainesville, Fl. 32601 > (352) 380-9616 > ************************************************* > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:00:17 -0800 From: "Joseph W. Murray" To: Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Message-Id: <199611112252.OAA11170@post.everett.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps my understanding of Liberation theology may be lacking. Liberation theology historically has promoted the overthrow, often by force or violence, governments of man that oppress and exploit . Often Marxist in its tendencies. Am I wrong in this thinking? I think my previous references to what Jesus said while on earth about his Kingdom are not in the least ambiguous as far as use of force and violence in overthrowing man's governments. If desired I can provide the scriptural references. Sorry about my spelling of Liberation and thanks for pointing it out. I dont bother to proofread. ---------- > From: TOM DILLINGHAM > To: blake@albion.com > Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? > Date: Sunday, November 10, 1996 5:03 PM > > Mr. Murray informs us that "Lilberation [sic] theology was about > as far from what Christ was preaching as can be imagined." > Interesting statement offered with certainty--care to > explain it and back it up? It's always interesting to see > someone who is entirely certain he knows "what Jesus said"-- > I believe Blake also thought that on more than one occasion. > Tom Dillingham ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 96 16:37:14 CST From: MTS231F@vma.smsu.edu To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Urizen Question Message-Id: <9611112241.AA29509@uu7.psi.com> While completely agreeing with Carolyn Austin's response, let me add that the teacher has posed a wonderful question to Alex J. Rodriguez. But maybe if we give him the help he requests, we can spare him some of the resistance that he might be feeling. God knows that I give my own students far too many reasons to resist me! ("And will that mind-blowing insight into Blake that you just revealed be on the test, or should we just forget about it?") On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:06:15 -0800 (PST) Carolyn Austin said: >I suspect that list members will be more willing to enter into some >discussion of this if you let us know what work you've done on this topic, >and what sorts of preliminary thoughts you've had on it. Otherwise, many >of us (I hope all of us) will read this as an attempt to get us to do your >thinking for you. > >Carolyn Austin >cfaustin@uci.edu > >On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Alex J. Rodriguez wrote: > >> I was wondering if anyone could help me with this question for a paper of >> mine regarding the First Book of Urizen: >> Locate one or more points of resistance to reading (you may consider the >> strangeness of punctuation, information that seems to be missing or which >> should not be there, character's names or actions, events, etc.) in the Book >> of Urizen and discuss what functions such points may have in dislodging a >> "normal" reader's comfortable belief in a stable and homogeneous "real" >world. >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >> >> >> Alex Rodriguez >> ************************************************* >> alxgator@afn.org http://www.afn.org/~alxgator/ >> >> GO GATORS! >> >> 704-107 S.W. 16th Avenue >> Gainesville, Fl. 32601 >> (352) 380-9616 >> ************************************************* >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Nov 96 16:32:07 CST From: MTS231F@vma.smsu.edu To: blake@albion.com Subject: Blake and Jesus and their literating theology Message-Id: <9611112241.AA29488@uu7.psi.com> My understanding of liberation theology is that it commits its energies to the most unfortunate and oppressed and fulminates against the powers of this earth for their exploitation. Like Jesus and like Blake, liberation theologists socialize with the poor, excoriate tyrants, and drive money changers from the Temple. Far from being as far from Jesus and Blake (who are often Marxist and frequently socialist), as possible, liberation theology interprets Christianity in almost the same way. But then disagreeing about similarities and differences drives most intellectual discourse and all warfare. Same in some ways, different in others. On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 14:00:17 -0800 Joseph W. Murray said: >Perhaps my understanding of Liberation theology may be lacking. >Liberation theology historically has promoted the overthrow, >often by force or violence, governments of man that oppress >and exploit . Often Marxist in its tendencies. Am I wrong in this thinking? >I think my previous references to what Jesus said while on >earth about his Kingdom are not in the least ambiguous >as far as use of force and violence in overthrowing man's >governments. If desired I can provide the scriptural references. > >Sorry about my spelling of Liberation and thanks for pointing >it out. I dont bother to proofread. > >---------- >> From: TOM DILLINGHAM >> To: blake@albion.com >> Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? >> Date: Sunday, November 10, 1996 5:03 PM >> >> Mr. Murray informs us that "Lilberation [sic] theology was about >> as far from what Christ was preaching as can be imagined." >> Interesting statement offered with certainty--care to >> explain it and back it up? It's always interesting to see >> someone who is entirely certain he knows "what Jesus said"-- >> I believe Blake also thought that on more than one occasion. >> Tom Dillingham > -------------------------------- End of blake-d Digest V1996 Issue #129 **************************************