From: blake-d-request@albion.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 1996 6:15 AM To: blake-d@albion.com Subject: blake-d Digest V1996 #125 ------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blake-d Digest Volume 1996 : Issue 125 Today's Topics: Re: Blake and Nietzsche, once again and again Re: Proverbs of Hell-reply blake quarterly Re: Lunar Island et al. redux Re: Proverbs of Hell Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Re: Proverbs of Hell -Reply Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Arlington Court Painting Re: blake quarterly Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Re[2]: Lunar Island et al. redux Re: BlakeQ and the Arlington Court Picture Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Re: blake quarterly Re: blake quarterly BLAKE ONLINE ADMINISTRIVIA Re: blake quarterly Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Blake's Characters Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? -Reply Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? -Reply Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? -Reply ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:22:32 -0800 From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Blake and Nietzsche, once again and again Message-Id: <199611042222.OAA08158@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >November 4th, 1996 > >On Saturday, Bert Stern stated that > > >> Re Blake and Nietzsche, I recall that a man named Constantine >> Stavrou wrote a dissertation on the subject at the University >> of Buffalo when I was an undergraudate there, in the late >> forties or early fifties. I suppose it is available if >> someone wishes to renew the exploration. >> > >I believe to remember that a more recent comparative study by Harvey >Birenbaum was published in c. 1991 under the title *Between Blake and >Nietzsche* by some US American university press. > > > _____ . . > ' \\ . . |>> > O// . . | > \_\ . DW Doerrbecker . | > | | . Kunstgeschichte im FB III . . . | > / | . Universitaet Trier, D-54286 Trier . . . | > / .| doerrbec@uni-trier.de . ..o u| > > THERE IS ALSO an older study on Blake in relation to Nietszche and other fathers of modern thought called Vision and Vesture: A Study of William Blake in Modern Thought by Charles Gardner (rev edn., London: JM Dent, 1929). Susan Reilly ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:33:05 -0800 From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Proverbs of Hell-reply Message-Id: <199611042233.OAA05098@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >I agree with Randall and Pam that the Proverbs and their "half-truths" have >to be seen in the context of an oppressive orthodox morality, to which they >are intended as corrosive correctives. At the same time, the comments of >Joseph Murray and TomD suggest that those proverbs have lost their force in >a culture that no longer suffers from orthodoxy in that way. To take them >literally also is to miss the satire in them--yet I don't think there's any >satire in "The lust of the goat is the bounty of God." > >Just as the "road of excess"is used to justify all sorts of irresponsible >hedonism today, Blake saw the Biblical proverbs being used, out of context, >to impose a loveless moral code and to rob humanity of its divine >potential. So he offered the "Bible of Hell" as a counterbalance, knowing >it could be misused like any other scripture. > >Jennifer Michael > > >Just to add a jat to this discussion: I was reading the Proverbs of Hell today and thought how well they exemplify the early (and later} Romantic credo wch privileged experience at nearly any cost. Recent critical works like Lucy Newlyn's (Paradise Lost and the Romantic Reader) have argued that it was in this Romantic light (I think) that Milton's Satan was seen as the great Byronic or Romantic hero. Just a thought intended to provoke some discussion out of this somnambulant group! (I know, it's exam time....) S. Reilly > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:51:37, -0500 From: LVDP51A@prodigy.com ( PAUL SCANLON) To: blake@albion.com Subject: blake quarterly Message-Id: <199611042151.QAA18664@mime4.prodigy.com> In the short time I have been receiving this service, there seems to be a growing number of members droping out and/or admitting their feelings of inepitude. Although I am one of these inept, I do enjoy hearing the ideas of those well versed in Blake's writings and relevant historical influence and would like to continue "eavesdroping" on your conversations... On that note, do any of you subscribe to _Blake Quarterly? I am interested in reviewing some of the articles but cannot find copies in my university's library nor in the major university nearby (UM Minneapolis). If you have an opinion in its quality and/or have knowledge on subscription, please let me know. Thanks paul scanlon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:54:16 -0800 From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Lunar Island et al. redux Message-Id: <199611042254.OAA24630@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> John. I got my copy of *Blake's Poetry and Design* today (ed Johnson and Grant) and am tearing into *Island in the Moon.* Thank you for referring me to it. In the headnotes to the piece, the editors note that Everett Frost produced it as a radio play for Pacifica Radio in 1976. This MAY have been discussed already, but if not, does anyone know if a recording is available? The text notes suggest, after G.M. HArper, that "Antiquarian" was meant to "represent" the Rev John Brand (1744-1806), who was appointed secretary to the Soc of Antiquarians in 1784 and was the author of *Observations on Popular Antiquities* (1777). "Inflammable Gass the Wind-Finder" is meant possibly to represent Wm Nicholson (1753-1815), author of *An Introduction to Natural Philosophy* (1792), or perhaps Gustavus Katterfelto, who "performed 3 scientific stage shows daily", George Fordyce, a supplier of hydrogen for Lunardi's hot-air ballon (I THINK it was hot-air; balloon at any rate), or even Joseph Priestly. There are more anotations of this kind---maybe it wd be best if you inquire after those which interest you. Susan Reilly ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:41:03 -0800 From: "Joseph W. Murray" To: Subject: Re: Proverbs of Hell Message-Id: <199611050233.SAA08826@post.everett.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My mail server wasnt working from 9AM Pacific time US On Nov 2 until about 2PM on Nov 4 so I missed the comments of Randall and Pam about Blake's Proverbs of Hell and any other comments regarding them. Would someone resubmitt or send me any comments relating during this time. Best regards, Joe Murray aeolian@everett.com ---------- > From: J. Michael > To: blake@albion.com > Subject: Re: Proverbs of Hell > Date: Monday, November 04, 1996 12:47 PM > > I agree with Randall and Pam that the Proverbs and their "half-truths" have > to be seen in the context of an oppressive orthodox morality, to which they > are intended as corrosive correctives. At the same time, the comments of > Joseph Murray and TomD suggest that those proverbs have lost their force in > a culture that no longer suffers from orthodoxy in that way. To take them > literally also is to miss the satire in them--yet I don't think there's any > satire in "The lust of the goat is the bounty of God." > > Just as the "road of excess"is used to justify all sorts of irresponsible > hedonism today, Blake saw the Biblical proverbs being used, out of context, > to impose a loveless moral code and to rob humanity of its divine > potential. So he offered the "Bible of Hell" as a counterbalance, knowing > it could be misused like any other scripture. > > Jennifer Michael > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:02:25 -0500 From: Tvdiet@aol.com To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Message-Id: <961104210222_1880858698@emout09.mail.aol.com> I beleive you are correct. Blake was a definite beleiver in the god of Abraham. I think, what he did not like was the same thing Mark Twain was opposed to. He did not like the hippocrytic society to which so many churches fall victim. Pure religion is not found in an organization, but in one's self. I think this was one of Blake's ideas. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 08:46:05 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Proverbs of Hell -Reply Message-Id: Thanks Jennifer for support on this debate - and also for presenting the abuse of the message of love in the Bible which is probably even more relevant than Blake's criticism of orthodoxy. The abuse of what is good for what is demeaning and evil is truly satanic. Pam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 07:32:01 -0500 From: albright@world.std.com (R.H. Albright) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John: This is actually an issue on which most scholars in this group and I have had some disagreement. (I'm not a Blake scholar, but love the _Songs_ through _Marriage_, and read what I can fathom in _Milton_ and _Jerusalem_. I love his other shorter poetry, too.) I think Blake comes closer to what William James described in _Varieties of Religious Experience_, someone who changed Christianity so much to fit his own personal vision that it became... his personal vision. Now, without going into specific quotes from his canon, let me offer these: The 10 Commandments and Old Testament "God" are repeatedly assailed by Blake as rigid, and in need of the Revolutionary Christ to supercede them in some way. You can see this in his visual art when Mary Magdalene gets to heaven basically by Jesus by-passing his Father. Now, to me, in even a "liberal" Christian doctrine, this is weird. Jesus said something to the effect of "I came not to break but to fulfill the law of my father." And Jesus didn't say things like _The Everlasting Gospel_ of Blake's, which says "Jesus didn't mean to experiment" (to my knowledge, he had no comment on what was then the scientific method), or most certainly-- again, paraphrasing here, this time Blake-- "to love the greatest men most." In fact, Jesus's doctrine would be to love perhaps the most crippled most, wouldn't it? Or to love us all, because we're all fallen? Then, in his earlier canon, like you mention with _Marriage_ and I see in _Songs_, I see Blake questioning authority (very Nietzschean) of "what IS a lamb?" Is it a signifier of a signified, which I then pass on... in Umberto Eco terms...? Or does it really "mean" the Son of God? And even then, isn't that just a signifier of a signified? And what's so wrong with a Tyger, anyway? He makes it sound like it's come out of a sado-masochistic vault or something, but the visual image is so tame. (Thanks for picking up the typo error yesterday-- I forgot your name-- but the question was: Was it intentional, or a mistake?) I also dispute-- and maybe Pam needs to articulate this some more-- that Blake wanted, ideally, actions to be merely selfless. That seems to be a giant Christian pitfall in the doctrine, that at least in his earlier work he knew was wrong. "The Clod and the Pebble" is a lesson in balance. To go to either extreme is to either let yourself become totally trompled (the Christian way, right? And that's what Nietzsche found so disgusting about it, and is also addressed so eloquently in the Giants who formed this world versus the Weak and Timid Minds that have them chained up) or to be cruel and exploitative beyond belief. I've actually had an interesting discussion in another group about exploitation. The word there we've been using is "manipulative", and the point is that exploiting or manipulating your environment isn't all bad. It's a Darwinian response to SURVIVE. Blake manipulated his words, exploited the colors available to him with watercolor, etc. ====== I also sadly agree with Jennifer Michael's response to what was probably a very intelligent conversation on The Proverbs from Hell, which again prove to me a point that I learned in Semiotics. Not only did times change and force Blake to reevaluate his own thoughts after the French Revolution crashed down, but we in this time, read the words differently than in their original context, too. Dealing with anarchy in the classroom and parents (at least *some* who have kids at the high school level of the wealthiest Boston suburbs) who don't even want to hear that the home life may be somewhat responsible for "Why Johnny is getting an F"-- the classic response I hear from one friend is that the parent says it's the teacher's fault, and of course has no time to help Johnny with after-school follow-through... This continues with the college level, where I've been trying to help someone who will remain nameless transfer to my school, but wonder... is he just a deconstructionist at heart? Or has the word "methodology" just never entered his head??? And this is also the age where IBM needs to train everyone in basic reading, writing and arithmetic-- college graduates!-- Goodness! At any rate, Cheers, indeed, John. And glad to hear the voices of Pam and Jennifer again. -Randall Albright http://world.std.com/~albright/blake.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:38:26 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Sonnemann u To: Blake@albion.com Subject: Arlington Court Painting Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Hello everyone, this is my first message to this web site. My name is Chris and I am a Fine Arts student at Wilfrid Laurier University in Canada. I am writing a paper on The Arlington Court painting/Circle of life/sea of time and space/regeneration, or whatever the hell!!!!!!!! else people call it. As you can see I am rather frusrtated, since it seems there are as many interpretations as their are names. I,ve read Grant, Raine, Simmons & Warner, Digby, Singh, Damon and Freed, and though all offer interesting points I,m still not satisfied (By the way I suggest reading Charu Sheel Singh, The Chariot of Fire: A study of Blake in the light of Hindu thought if you really want a different angle on Blake!). The course I am writing this paper for is "Women Images in Art" and in my paper( someones God help me!!!), I am trying to illustrate the female role in Blake's concept of earthly/mortal/vegetative creation. One stumbling block (of many) I have encountered is the chariot rider in the water, is it Tharmas's emanation Enion (?)I suggest this because of Tharmas' relation to water. ~Other suggestions are Ahania, Eno, Leutha or one of Urizen's daughters Any suggestions? Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:25:46 -0500 (EST) From: Patricia Neill To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: blake quarterly Message-Id: <199611061425.JAA09890@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Paul, I am managing editor of Blake/An Illustrated Quarterly, and I'd be happy to send you (and anyone else here) a complimentary copy of the journal, along with subscription information. Just let me know your mailing address. And individual subscription is $25/year, make checks out to Blake, Department of English, University of Rochester, Rochester NY 14627. All best, Patricia Neill PS If anyone has any "news" items on matters Blakean, please feel free to send them along to me. They will either be published in our newsletter section or on our forthcoming web page. >On that note, do any of you subscribe to _Blake Quarterly? I am >interested in reviewing some of the articles but cannot find copies >in my university's library nor in the major university nearby (UM >Minneapolis). If you have an opinion in its quality and/or have >knowledge on subscription, please let me know. > >Thanks > >paul scanlon > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:36:14 -0600 From: jmichael@seraph1.sewanee.edu (J. Michael) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Randall: Just to clarify: what you describe as the "Revolutionary Christ" is what I see as having some similarities to Orc, at least to Orc at his purest and best, as in America, where he stands up to the tyrannical father-figure who assumes the forms of Albion's "Angel," George III, Urizen, and the God of the Old Testament. I know Orc's father is supposed to be Los, but these familial relationships are, shall we say, intricate (e.g., Los and Enitharmon are brother and sister as well as husband and wife!). Orc ultimately fails as a revolutionary figure because earthly revolution cannot break out of its cycle of violence, but a number of his attributes are preserved in the revolutionary portrait of Jesus in _The Everlasting Gospel_. Just as Orc sends back the plagues onto Albion's Angel, Jesus challenges "The God of this World" who is "a Smiter with disease." Whereas Orc gets nailed to a rock and degenerates into a serpent, this Jesus "with wrath . . . did subdue / The Serpent Bulk of Natures dross / Till he had naild it to the Cross." Jennifer Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 96 09:05 CST From: MLGrant@president-po.president.uiowa.edu To: blake@albion.com, reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) Subject: Re[2]: Lunar Island et al. redux Message-Id: <199611061509.JAA03541@ns-mx.uiowa.edu> I don't know whether a recording exists, but I'm forwarding the query to Everett Frost (frost@is2.NYU.EDU). Perhaps he'll answer. -- Mary Lynn Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 21:31:03 MET From: "D.W. DOERRBECKER" To: LVDP51A@prodigy.com ( PAUL SCANLON), blake@albion.com Subject: Re: BlakeQ and the Arlington Court Picture Message-Id: <9566DE2A2E@netwareserver.uni-trier.de> November 6th, 1996 Two days ago, Paul Scanlon enquired > [..] do any of you subscribe to _Blake Quarterly? I am > interested in reviewing some of the articles but cannot find > copies in my university's library nor in the major university > nearby (UM Minneapolis). If you have an opinion in its > quality and/or have knowledge on subscription, please let me > know. As an occasional contributor to the Quarterly my high esteem for the quality of the vast majority of the contributions you'll find there is likely to be biased. However, I'm convinced that many others on this list subscribe to the journal and will offer less prejudiced opinions. If you have some twenty to twenty-five bucks to spend a year, you'll not only receive an average of six to eight scholarly articles on some aspect of Blake's poetry and art p.a., but will also learn about the year's sales on the Blake market, about the latest discoveries concerning Blake's paintings, drawings, and prints (from Martin Butlin, Robert N. Essick, Joseph Viscomi, et al.), and about current Blake-related publications (a continuing update to G. E. Bentley's *Blake Books* and its *Supplement*). The review section, edited by another occasional contributor to the present list (i.e., Nelson Hilton), presents a lively forum for methodologically orientated discussion, which I wouldn't want to miss. One warning, though, seems in place: the *BlakeQ* definitely is a *scholarly* journal, its articles being "refereed", and all that; while its editors and contributors presumably share a vital interest in Blake's historical stature and the latter's meaning for our own day, they do not produce what could be considered a fanzine or a Blake-cult publication. For further information (subscription rates, back issues available, etc.) write to Ms. Patricia Neill, Managing Editor, Blake/An Illustrated Quarterly, Department of English, The University of Rochester, Rochester, N.Y. 14627(?), USA. Patricia Neill's E-Mail address is pnpj@db1.cc.rochester.edu. With respect to the tricky task of interpreting Blake's late Arlington Court picture, I feel that Christopher H. Heppner's fine and insightful study of Blake's pictorial art (Cambridge, Cambs.: Cambridge UP, 1995) is now the place where to start one's own investigation. Heppner's work is particularly strong in unravelling the iconography of the painting, and his detailed descriptive account of what's to be seen in it ought to be helpful, too, since it shows that (and why) some of the more phantastic of the previous "readings" simply do not hold. Now, is *this* helpful at all? -- DW Doerrbecker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 16:08:47 -0500 From: Virginia DeMeres To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Message-Id: <3280FE5F.BF0@rsad.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have to agree that orthodox Christianity does not seem to fit Blake's schema, but looking at certain characteristics of the biblical Christ, I can understand how Blake (or anyone) might come to see Jesus as chiefly iconoclast, as advocate not for any particular ritual or dogmatic schema but for as pure an encounter as possible with divinity. From Jesus' behavior in the temple to his reduction of the "law" into 2: love God and your neighbor, this was a figure flying in the face of convention. When you add the good Samaritan story--admittedly a self-sacrificial tale up to a point--you get a guy asking people to give the devil's party (Samaritans were not a popular lot in Judea) its due. Now add parties with whores and tax collectors into the mix and you have a less than conventionally moral kind of guy. Very likely most churches even today would see Blake as a heretic, but I believe there's an argument that they would say the same of Christ himself (as others have observed for various reasons). This note is admittedly more about Christianity than Blake, but I think it's important to see Christ outside as well as inside the context of orthodoxy BECAUSE HE WAS OUTSIDE OF ORTHODOXY. I think that's part of Blake's take on things, a suspicion that the image of Christ and Jesus have been manipulated and watered down to serve the principles of reason and, eventually, power, that the truth of "religion" lies OUTSIDE religion and that a messiah (a true one) is therefore always positioned outside as well. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:36:58 -0600 From: tomdill@wc.stephens.edu (TOM DILLINGHAM) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: blake quarterly Message-Id: <96110616365890@wc.stephens.edu> I would definitely endorse your getting a subscription to Blake: An Illustrated Quarterly. I have subscribed since the first issue and though there have been a very few issues that have been either too arcane (even for me, and I love arcane things) or too dry, the vast majority of pages over the years have been really valuable. One major attraction--every issue is plentifully illustrted with works of Blake and his contemporaries. A subscription is $25 per year, which is a bit steep, but considering the special interest and the amount of illustration, not really all that expensive. You can subscribe by sending a check to Patricia Neill, Dept. of English, University of Rochester, Rochester, New York 14627. It is too bad that more libraries don't subscribe to this journal, but I guess it can only be justified in a pretty heavily academic environment with a number of English majors. Even our college library dropped it, so I have made my copies available to students whenever I have taught the course. I feel sure you would enjoy it. Tom Dillingham ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:08:46 -0500 (EST) From: me To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: blake quarterly Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 96 15:53:22 -0800 From: Seth T. Ross To: blake@albion.com Subject: BLAKE ONLINE ADMINISTRIVIA Message-Id: <9611062353.AA01882@albion.com> Content-Type: text/plain =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- BLAKE ONLINE ADMINISTRIVIA To leave Blake Online, send an email message to blake-request@albion.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT field, like so: TO: blake-request@albion.com SUBJECT: unsubscribe Your address will be automatically unsubscribed. Please use the address blake-request@albion.com for all administrative queries. Note that an archive of Blake postings can be found on the World Wide Web at the URL: http://www.albion.com/indexBlake.html Virtually yours, Seth Ross Albion sysadmin -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 10:48:54 +0900 From: Albion Rose To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: blake quarterly Message-Id: <32813FFF.1A46@mb.inforyukyu.or.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patricia Neill wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > I am managing editor of Blake/An Illustrated Quarterly, and I'd be happy to send you (and anyone else here) a complimentary copy of the journal, along with subscription information. Just let me know your mailing address. > >Thanks > > > >paul scanlon > > > > My mailing address is: R. Joshua Murry PSC 80, Box 15929 APO AP 96367 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:21:14 -0600 From: tomdill@wc.stephens.edu (TOM DILLINGHAM) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? Message-Id: <96110620211426@wc.stephens.edu> It is probably worth mentioning the two very fine studies of Blake's antinomian religious views--Jonathan Mee's _Dangerous Enthusiasm_ and E.P. Thompson's _Witness Against the Beast_. I don't mean to invoke authority to discourage discussion, but some issues need not be re-hashed entirely. Tom Dillingham ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:02:04 -0500 (EST) From: bouwer To: blake@albion.com Subject: Blake's Characters Message-Id: <199611070302.WAA00949@host.ott.igs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For me VALA is our mundane concept of Reality. I know that is an oversimplification, but it makes it easier to think through cer- tain things that way. (This reality of course does not just include reality as matter, as blue skies and mountains. It includes a lot of things that we conceive of as given, out there, or in us, Maya.) Now it moves me to think that Vala is the emanation of Luvah, the emotive energy of Man. One would have thought that our concept of Reality should have been fashioned by, say, the cognitive energy of Man - Urizen. But no, it is fashioned out of our feelings, out of our desires. Nature is the way it is, because Man DESIRED it to be so, desired it into existence. What moves me even more is that, according to Blake, the Lamb of God is clothed in the Robes of Luvah. (E 363) The Redeemer has to come through the emotive energy to redeem us. What feeling crea- tures we are, according to Blake! Then I start asking the question: when I say "we," am I talking about all the peoples on the face of the earth? Are there other people on this earth whose concepts of reality are fashioned by other Zoas, their "Nature" the emanation not of the emotive energy, but perhaps the cognitive energy, or the imaginative energy, or the instinctual energy. When I listen to songs sung by Inuit people, or I see the wise-looking eyes of Australian Blackfellows, I begin to ask myself: which Zoa energized their concept of reality? When I look at the monumental sculptures of the First Nations in British Columbia, I often think that the Zoa that fashioned their concept of reality is probably the Zoa of the Imagination, Urthona. When I start thinking about Zoas, and concepts of reality, and then of other planets - it is then that my mind shuts down. Gloudina Bouwer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 10:11:48 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com, Tvdiet@aol.com Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? -Reply Message-Id: Yes, Blake did believe in the God within, accessible to each of us: "I am not a God afar off, I am a brother and friend; "Within your bosoms I reside, and yu reside in me: "Lo! We are One, forgiving all evil, not seeking recompense." (Jerusalem, Cahpt 1, plate 4, 18-20, Keynes 622) Pam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 10:23:57 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com, albright@world.std.com Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? -Reply Message-Id: Randall, As you asked me to elaborate some on Blake's belief in selflessness, consider the force of "THe most sublime act is to set another before self" of the "Proverbs" --- a vision developed, in my opinion, as expressed in detail before, in "The Book of Thel' (where even the humblest of spirits knows the blessings of living in unity with divine love and compassion and is glad to be of service to others). Then, I have to disagree with you re Blake trying to arrive at a `balance' in "The Clod & the Pebble". If one takes seriously his view that we are of divine origin and that our true natures , when fully expanded into the divine light, is to participate in God's eternal divine humanity, then, we must also take seriously that the love of the `Clay' is the ideal to which we should aspire. In this, Selfhood is annihilated (without losing the unique traits of being ~Clay~ , but rather being most true to one's `clay-like essence, just as in Eternity, all appear as `One Man' , JESUS, when expanded away from their individual Selfhoods, yet do not lose their unique individuality). Pam van Schaik ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 10:31:11 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com, vdemers@mailnews.rsad.edu Subject: Re: "GOD" and Mr Blake? -Reply Message-Id: Well put, Virginia... agree with all you say. Moreover, Blake sees Christ in Eternity as the `good husbandman' sowing the seeds of `eternal science' and his role there as his eternal one. His sojourn on earth, he sees, as redemptive, but as a passing phase. Pam -------------------------------- End of blake-d Digest V1996 Issue #125 **************************************