------------------------------ Content-Type: text/plain blake-d Digest Volume 1996 : Issue 115 Today's Topics: question Re: LITTLE LAMB, GOD BLESS THEE! Re: question Re: LITTLE LAMB, GOD BLESS THEE! Re: LITTLE LAMB, GOD BLESS THEE! Lost Music Re: Lost Music We Need YOUR Help! Re: Lost Music Re: Lost Music Re: We Need YOUR Help! Re: Lost Music Re: Lost Music Re: Lost Music -Reply Re: Poison Tree Hello all Re: We Need YOUR Help! Re: Lost Music Re: Hello all Signing Off Re: Lost Music -Reply Re: Signing Off brief introduction Fwd: brief introduction Re: Lost Music ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:00:18 -0300 (ADT) From: Anna Louise Dirksen To: blake@albion.com Subject: question Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello! I'm new to this group and by the looks of the messages that I've seen posted, I'm probably also a little behind. I have a question that's been on my mind for the past few days and I was hoping that one of you might be able to provide me with an answer. It's my opinion that when Blake wrote the "Songs of Innocence" he did so with a prototype for "Songs of Experience" in mind. In other words, even in 1789 Blake knew that he would be publishing two volumes - "Innocence" and "Experience". I haven't done enough research on Blake to be able to back my assumption but I would really appreciate any opinions or references from any of you. Thanks for your time, Anna Dirksen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:21:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Ralph Dumain To: rdumain@igc.apc.org, suzaraa@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Cc: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: LITTLE LAMB, GOD BLESS THEE! Message-Id: <199610161821.LAA23501@igc2.igc.apc.org> >I find your remarks on "The Lamb" to be on the mark; Thanks for your kind remarks. >Andrew Lincoln's brief comments in the Blake Trust are also very >intelligent. I'm not familiar with this source. >Do you have a source for your ideas, or are these your own? These ideas are entirely my own, for better or worse. I've never read a word of criticism on "The Lamb". >And if the latter is the case, why are you wasting your words on >the uncertain winds of the list? I'm afraid I don't understand; please explain. Do you mean I should get published somewhere? Very well, tell me how. I'm not a professional literary scholar; I'm an autodidact without the proper credentials. I think there are certain areas of intellectual and cultural endeavor where, the need for training notwithstanding, one cannot really attain the heights without a certain extraprofessional perspicacity, passion, and conviction. What is the difference between Blake and Adorno? To be for, not merely to shrink from. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:22:20 -0400 From: MTavish@aol.com To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: question Message-Id: <961016212219_128552383@emout10.mail.aol.com> Hi, Offhand, I can't answer your question about the SOE. What has driven me nuts, though, is knowing that we have lost the music he composed for most of the SOI and SOE poems. K Middleton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:22:36 -0400 From: MTavish@aol.com To: blake@albion.com, rdumain@igc.apc.org Subject: Re: LITTLE LAMB, GOD BLESS THEE! Message-Id: <961016212236_128552602@emout19.mail.aol.com> Hi, I also liked this post about how to read the poem. E. D. Hirsch's <> gives similar readings which you might enjoy. K. Middleton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:39:24 -0700 From: "Joseph W. Murray" To: Subject: Re: LITTLE LAMB, GOD BLESS THEE! Message-Id: <199610170632.XAA18361@post.everett.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It was to read the kind of insights in your posting of the other day that I originally subscribed to the list. I've always found Blakes lyrics to be the most truly profound of his poetry, particularly Songs of Innocence and Experience. best regards Joseph Murray e-mail:aeolian@everett.com ---------- > From: Ralph Dumain > To: rdumain@igc.apc.org; suzaraa@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu > Cc: blake@albion.com > Subject: Re: LITTLE LAMB, GOD BLESS THEE! > Date: Wednesday, October 16, 1996 11:21 AM > > >I find your remarks on "The Lamb" to be on the mark; > > Thanks for your kind remarks. > > >Andrew Lincoln's brief comments in the Blake Trust are also very > >intelligent. > > I'm not familiar with this source. > > >Do you have a source for your ideas, or are these your own? > > These ideas are entirely my own, for better or worse. I've never > read a word of criticism on "The Lamb". > > >And if the latter is the case, why are you wasting your words on > >the uncertain winds of the list? > > I'm afraid I don't understand; please explain. Do you mean I > should get published somewhere? Very well, tell me how. I'm not > a professional literary scholar; I'm an autodidact without the > proper credentials. > > I think there are certain areas of intellectual and cultural > endeavor where, the need for training notwithstanding, one cannot > really attain the heights without a certain extraprofessional > perspicacity, passion, and conviction. > > What is the difference between Blake and Adorno? To be for, not > merely to shrink from. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:30:06 -0500 (CDT) From: William Neal Franklin To: blake@albion.com Subject: Lost Music Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 16 Oct 1996 MTavish@aol.com wrote: > Hi, > what has driven me nuts is knowing that we have lost the > music he composed for most of the SOI and SOE poems. > K Middleton > Blake never composed music--he sang spontaneously from his soul. To have committed such music to mere marks on paper would indeed be to have lost the music. It's still there; it takes an imaginative singer to bring it to life, that's all. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 09:40:43 -0500 From: jmichael@seraph1.sewanee.edu (J. Michael) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Lost Music Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Blake never composed music--he sang spontaneously from his soul. To have >committed such music to mere marks on paper would indeed be to have lost >the music. It's still there; it takes an imaginative singer to bring it >to life, that's all. Well . . . but he did burn the words and images arduously into copper plates and color the prints by hand. I don't know whether Blake ever used musical notation, but I'm always trying to resist the association of Blake with ethereal processes of composition. In the introduction to _Songs of Innocence_, the movement is from melody to song to print so that "Every child," not just the one on the cloud, "may joy to hear." Actually, I'm almost glad we don't have the music, if it ever existed, because so many talented musicians have created different settings for the Songs. If we had Blake's own canonical melodies, they wouldn't have dared. Jennifer Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 17:01:15 +0400 From: "Michael A. Sniggin" To: blake@albion.com Cc: BLINDFAM@SJUVM.STJOHNS.EDU Subject: We Need YOUR Help! Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen! Please, read this message over - this is not an ads or something like that. We are living in the South Urals, Russia and we are trying to connect our society, our people to the Internet by new technologies - just to have normal conditions to work with this Great Net. What we have now is just a mockery - sometimes 25 bytes/sec (!!!). But new equipment is very expensive. So we are trying to collect the sum we need by donations of persons holding the same views. If you sympathise our ideas and consider it possible to send us some money - it would be accepted with warm gratitude. We would be also very grateful to all advises too, our mail - specle@specle.chel.su Thank you for reading this message over, and - forgive us for taking your time. Yours virtually, Advance Tech Group. Please transfer ANY sum to the: BENEFICIARY: Lazarev Yuri Ivanovich, Russia ACCOUNT # 008100072 With Savings Bank Of Russian Federation (SBERBANK) C.H.I.P.S. Number 3212333 SWIFT Code - SABRRUMM Kurchatovskoe Branch 8053 In Favour Account # 7207001394/001 (for USD) # 7207000088/048 (for DM) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 13:27:05 -0400 From: MStodnick@aol.com To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Lost Music Message-Id: <961017132705_1447571742@emout14.mail.aol.com> have you ever seen Alan Ginsberg sing and play instruments to Blake's "Songs", although he can't see worth a lick, his music was beautiful!!! I don't know where you can find it, but I do know that it is in written form....mabye something of interest? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 14:10 EDT From: "Elisa E. Beshero 814 862-8914" To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Lost Music Message-Id: <9610171811.AA08422@uu6.psi.com> Jennifer, --The movement in the intro of Songs of Innocence _is_ interestingly from an ethereal music to a substantial literary form. . .So why can't Blakean music be unrecorded-- and, indeed, unrecordable in its original innocent, inspirational mode? --Elisa - - The original note follows - - Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 09:40:43 -0500 To: blake@albion.com From: jmichael@seraph1.sewanee.edu (J. Michael) Subject: Re: Lost Music Resent-From: blake@albion.com Reply-To: blake@albion.com >Blake never composed music--he sang spontaneously from his soul. To have >committed such music to mere marks on paper would indeed be to have lost >the music. It's still there; it takes an imaginative singer to bring it >to life, that's all. Well . . . but he did burn the words and images arduously into copper plates and color the prints by hand. I don't know whether Blake ever used musical notation, but I'm always trying to resist the association of Blake with ethereal processes of composition. In the introduction to _Songs of Innocence_, the movement is from melody to song to print so that "Every child," not just the one on the cloud, "may joy to hear." Actually, I'm almost glad we don't have the music, if it ever existed, because so many talented musicians have created different settings for the Songs. If we had Blake's own canonical melodies, they wouldn't have dared. Jennifer Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:25:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Avery F. Gaskins" To: Subject: Re: We Need YOUR Help! Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Type: Text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Is there any way to check to see that this is legitimate? If I thought so, I would forward it to another list. Avery Gaskins ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 14:03:01 -0800 From: David Rollison To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Lost Music Message-Id: <3266AD15.6FBB@marin.cc.ca.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen (note spelling) Ginsberg sings a number of Blake songs on his CD, "Holy Soul Jelly Roll" also Greg Brown has recorded "London" which he sings hauntingly. Ginsberg often sings "The Tyger," but his opus #1--to my ear--is "The Nurse's Song." Stodnick@aol.com wrote: > > have you ever seen Alan Ginsberg sing and play instruments to Blake's > "Songs", although he can't see worth a lick, his music was beautiful!!! > I don't know where you can find it, but I do know that it is in written > form....mabye something of interest? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:59:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Scott A Leonard To: David Rollison Cc: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Lost Music Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It's been mentioned on this list before, but Greg Brown has produced an album titled "Songs of Innocence & Experience." My personal favorite is "Little Vagabon"--he seems to get the feel right. It's probably meaningless to this conversation, but Greg Brown sings and writes in shackles on the "Innocence/Experience" album. He's in top form on original albums like "Poet Game." just my .02, Scott A. Leonard Youngstown State U P.S. My Blake seminar will likely be bombarding this list with questions about the 4 Zoas any day now. Make up your own rules of engagement: forewarned is forearmed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:05:42 +0200 From: P Van Schaik To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Lost Music -Reply Message-Id: There was a recording on 45" of Ginsberg's music, so you should be able to get one by asking a record shop assistant to check back on what was made - approx 15 years ago, I think. Pam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:46:34 -0400 From: Eva Collins To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Poison Tree Message-Id: <32676E1A.4773@atlantech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit P Van Schaik wrote: > > A very brief response re this: Blake implies that it is better to vent one's > resentments and anger openly rather than suppress these as the latter > course breeds toxins which poison one's own mind and spiritually > transform one into a Revenger-Murderer - the antithesis of Christ, the > Forgiver. Pam van Schaik Pam, I am not a Blake scholarn not knowing anything Blakeish, I am captured by what I read in your response, tell me more. Peace, Eva Yoga Community Newsletter Healing through speaking and listening 7173 Winter Rose Path Columbia, MD 21045 410/290-5258 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:30:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "P. Joubert" To: blake@albion.com Subject: Hello all Message-Id: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've only recently become seriously interested in the Internet, and I was pleasantly surprised to find such an interest in Blake studies. I have a "innocent" question to ask: does anybody know where, on the internet, there would be information on Blake's use of Lyrical form (ie Songs of Innocence and Experience) as opposed to his use of Prose (ie parts of the Marriage of Heaven and Hell)? I have a feeling that his use of genre is fundamentally linked both to his desire to help free members from his soceity from their mental prisons, and also to his use of composite art as a means of joining together splits within his society. If any have comments or know of Internet resources/essays, or just good essays that you have read on Blake, Genre, The Lyric as it pertains to Blake, or on social or psychological approaches to these topics, please email back. It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Pieter Joubert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:04:28 -0400 From: TomD3456@aol.com To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: We Need YOUR Help! Message-Id: <961018130426_546084375@emout05.mail.aol.com> For what it's worth, I do not believe this appeal is on the level -- It would be too easy to fake. An appeal for equipment I might have believed; for money, no. -Tom Devine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:32:20 -0400 From: TomD3456@aol.com To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Lost Music Message-Id: <961018133220_1280074326@emout06.mail.aol.com> Thanks, Scott, for your take on Greg Brown. I've never liked his Blake songs -- they all seemed too similar and too bland. I found myself preferring Allan Ginsburg's versions, despite their weirdness, because they seemed to do more with the words and to delve more deeply into the feelings. Thanks to your comment, I may check out Greg Brown's other albums. -Tom Devine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:32:28 -0400 From: TomD3456@aol.com To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Hello all Message-Id: <961018133227_1480642390@emout12.mail.aol.com> Pieter-- Your intuitions about Blake's use of genre are in line with his own. See plate 3 of Jerusalem: "Of the Measure in which the following poem is written." Among other things, he says there "The terrific numbers are reserved for the terrific parts, the mild & gentle, for the mild & gentle parts, and the prosaic, for inferior parts; all are necessary to each other. Poetry Fettered, Fetters the Human Race." Enjoy! --Tom Devine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:07:50 -0400 From: Sjnevil@aol.com To: Blake@albion.com Subject: Signing Off Message-Id: <961018160749_546213432@emout14.mail.aol.com> Would someone be kind enough to post the instruction required to leave this list? Thanks Stephen Neville sjnevil@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:17:40 -0500 From: enghhh@showme.missouri.edu (Howard Hinkel) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Lost Music -Reply Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >There was a recording on 45" of Ginsberg's music, so you should be >able to get one by asking a record shop assistant to check back on what >was made - approx 15 years ago, I think. Pam MGM released a 33 1/3 not long after the '68 Democratic Convention, which impelled if not inspired the recording, dominated by Ginsberg and Peter Orlovsky. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 14:40:22 -0700 From: Seth T. Ross To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Signing Off Message-Id: <9610182140.AA08976@albion.com> Content-Type: text/plain > Would someone be kind enough to post the instruction required > to leave this list? BLAKE ONLINE ADMINISTRIVIA To leave Blake Online, send an email message to blake-request@albion.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT field, like so: TO: blake-request@albion.com SUBJECT: unsubscribe Your address will be automatically unsubscribed. Please use the address blake-request@albion.com for all administrative queries. Note that an archive of Blake postings can be found on the World Wide Web at the URL: http://www.albion.com/indexBlake.html Virtually yours, Seth Ross Albion sysadmin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:00:52 -0700 From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: brief introduction Message-Id: <199610191600.JAA01392@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> I recently completed graduate studies in English at Boston College. I have worked as a research assistant on a recent publication in Studies in English Literature and as a contributor to the forthcoming Feminist Literary Theory: A Dictionary. I will be a contributor to the forthcoming edition of ABELL. In 1994 I delivered a paper on Wordsworth, Locke, and the poetic episteme at The Wordsworth Summer Conference in Grasmere, England. My recent essay entitled " 'Philanthropized Courtier': Basil Montagu in the Wordsworth Circle" attempts to demonstrate that the little-known Montagu was an entrepreneur in a system of "peer" or "mutual" patronage which extended to Wordsworth, Coleridge, Godwin, and others. It is soon to be submitted for consideration by the new journal out of Edinburgh, "Romanticism." I have delivered other conference papers in unrelated fields (i.e. literary periods). These include a paper on the [American] dime novel, an essay on the use of legal language in The Canterbury Tales, and a work on the use of beast fable in Book IX of Paradise Lost, which I will be presenting this spring at The Medieval Forum in Plymouth, NH. I have been a respondent at the Center for Literary Studies at Harvard University, Victorian Literature and Culture. Susan Reilly ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:33:54 -0700 From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Fwd: brief introduction Message-Id: <199610191833.LAA28631@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> ---- Begin Forwarded Message Return-Path: Received: from relay4.smtp.psi.net (relay4.smtp.psi.net [38.9.52.2]) by ixmail3.ix.netcom.com (8.7.5/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id JAA11611; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uu6.psi.com by relay4.smtp.psi.net (8.7.5/SMI-5.4-PSI) id MAA28899; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 12:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by uu6.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA15095 for fabianm@moodys.com; Sat, 19 Oct 96 12:11:27 -0400 Received: by albion.com (NX5.67e/Albion+2) id AA01255; Sat, 19 Oct 96 08:56:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:00:52 -0700 Old-Return-Path: Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:00:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199610191600.JAA01392@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: reillys@ix.netcom.com (susan p. reilly) Subject: brief introduction To: blake@albion.com Resent-Message-Id: <"SwN0x1.0.ZJ.KeFQo"@los> Resent-From: blake@albion.com Reply-To: blake@albion.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3237 X-Loop: blake@albion.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: blake-request@albion.com I recently completed graduate studies in English at Boston College. I have worked as a research assistant on a recent publication in Studies in English Literature and as a contributor to the forthcoming Feminist Literary Theory: A Dictionary. I will be a contributor to the forthcoming edition of ABELL. In 1994 I delivered a paper on Wordsworth, Locke, and the poetic episteme at The Wordsworth Summer Conference in Grasmere, England. My recent essay entitled " 'Philanthropized Courtier': Basil Montagu in the Wordsworth Circle" attempts to demonstrate that the little-known Montagu was an entrepreneur in a system of "peer" or "mutual" patronage which extended to Wordsworth, Coleridge, Godwin, and others. It is soon to be submitted for consideration by the new journal out of Edinburgh, "Romanticism." I have delivered other conference papers in unrelated fields (i.e. literary periods). These include a paper on the [American] dime novel, an essay on the use of legal language in The Canterbury Tales, and a work on the use of beast fable in Book IX of Paradise Lost, which I will be presenting this spring at The Medieval Forum in Plymouth, NH. I have been a respondent at the Center for Literary Studies at Harvard University, Victorian Literature and Culture. Susan Reilly ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 20:21:23 -0500 From: tomdill@wc.stephens.edu (TOM DILLINGHAM) To: blake@albion.com Subject: Re: Lost Music Message-Id: <96101920212368@wc.stephens.edu> There was an extended discussion of 20th century musical settings of Blake (inlcuding, as I recall, references to Greg Brown, William Bolcom, Allen Ginsbert, Benjamin Britten, Ralph Vaughn Williams, The Doors, Billy Bragg, Van Morrison, Loreena McKennit, The Waterboys, and probably a few others). Most of the music referenced has been available on disk==Ginsberg's Songs of Innocence and Experience was available on lp and is, I believe, reissued on cd. Ginsberg requires some acclimating (rather like acquiring a taste for anchovies) since his singing style is peculiar, but I can attest that the melodies and rhythms he has "tuned" for the songs are finally convincing and stick with the listener who gives them a chance--and they stick without degrading or becoming annoying Greg Brown's songs are lovely and enjoyable, but seem not to have the staying power, at least for me. The Bolcom settings have not been recorded, to my knowledge; they seem to have provoked fierce reactions both positive and negative. I wish I could hear them. Tom Dillingham -------------------------------- End of blake-d Digest V1996 Issue #115 **************************************